Oil everywhere and poor performance after Dejon intake

[BigDan]

Hey I bought a Dejon intake tube, 2g mas, plug and play adapter, Dejon UICP and elbow second hand.

My car is a 92 TSI AWD stock w/ 114K and most matianance complete.

The seller also threw in a canister for the 2 vaccum lines/PCV lines that use to go into the stock intake tube. Well I didnt have small enough hose clamps to clamp the PCV hose to the canister, I figured it could wait until I got back from my test run aroun the neighborhood.

1st gear huge improvment in power from 5-7K
2nd gear was good until 5500rpm and then it lost alot of power and would stop pulling. I heard the turbo fluttering.

Got back home and there was oil splattered under the hood. I saw that the dipstick poped off and figured that was the problem. I zip tied the dipstick so it wouldnt pop off again. I checked the 2 vacuum lines/ PCV and they were dry so I took it back out.

Same problem but it got worse the longer I drove and after 3 minutes the engine was running so bad I had to drive 5mph home.

Poped the hood and there was oil everywhere. It was comming from that little hole on the front of the valve cover above the dipstick and the PCV hose. I cleaned the oil up, installed the pcv canister and it still ran bad, it couldnt even idle.

I figured the plugs were soaked in oil so I cleaned thoes up and it still runs like crap.

Both times I returned the engine was super hot to the touch but the gauge never went above normal.

I dont think its an internal engine problem since it was running great before the new intake and could tell there was a problem right away.

I'm gonna do a compression check right now.

Can you guys help me out?

This is a very common mod and im guessing this has happened before. I realize that I need a logger and gauges and figured I might have a small tuning problem but nothing like this.

Thanks for the help

Dan

 

[dsmmatt28]

On the intake there is a tube that goes from the intake to the valve cover is that off. If so you have a vaccum leak and that is why your car does not idle.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

It sounds like you closed off all of the engine's vents. Thats bad. You probably blew the valvecover gasket. I certainly hope that canister was vented.

 

[crimsondragon]

Did you say your valve cover has a hole in it??? WTF If your dipstick popped out it means you have too much pressure within the engine. That's what the PCV valve it for. It's to vent the pressure out.

 

[talonalex92]

Wow I really cant understand any of that. Make sure your pcv valve is good. No oil should come out of the front of your valve cover. If you had a picture we could help a lot more man.

 

[romeen]

The hole he is referring to is most likely the plug valley drain hole (drains oil out of plug valley which is usually a result of leaking oil cap or cracked valve cover). It can be seen in this post from another member:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/pro...-hole-cam-cover-drain-hole-4.html#post1462988

To the OP, it is pretty clear that you are pressurizing your crankcase by not being able to vent it properly. A picture would definitely help but I believe that the Dejon intake pipe does not have a nipple for connection to the valve cover breather (passenger side of valve cover). The problem is that most of our PCV valves leak air under boost allowing the boost pressure to fill the crankcase instead of the valve sealing shut to prevent this. Normally some of this pressure is relieved by the breather hose attached to the intake pipe resulting in your dipstick popping out and maybe some oil in the intake. But if the breather nipple is routed to a sealed catch can then that pressure has nowhere to go and something has to give (valve cover gasket, dipstick pop out, oil cap gasket, etc.)

Start by tapping your intake pipe for a nipple (many threads on this) then run a line from the valve cover to the catch can (assuming it is sealed meaning no filter on top of it) then on to the intake pipe. Keep your PCV valve routed to the intake manifold like the stock configuration. Here is some good reading on the topic as well as a "fix" for the leaking PCV valves:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/229338-stupid-pcv-question.html

Once you fix this problem you should check the condition of your valve cover gasket and your oil cap gasket as they may need replacing.

A compression test would also be a good idea to check for worn rings allowing excessive blow by.

 

[BigDan]

Update

I put the stock intake back on and made sure all the hoses were attached and it now idles but really rough and the dip stick poped as soon as I gave it some revs.

I put the intake back to stock but why am I still having problems?

Also what is the correct way to plumb this canister once I put the dejon back on?

Here's some pics

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The pcv canister. I dont know much about it. Am I holding it upright?

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new intake

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uicp

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Thanks for all the replies

 

[SonySlave]

Well for one, ziptying the dipstick down won't solve your problem at all. Dipstick workarounds are bad and won't solve anything. You need to figure out why you are building so much crankcase pressure. My dipstick blew out in my 1G a little while back and I did to correct measures to properly fix it. I bought a brand new PCV valve and dipstick from the dealer and haven't had a problem since. You could try doing that also, and also get a new valve cover gasket because it looks like your blew out.

Find the root of the problem!

 

[romeen]

As I previously mentioned, most likely your PCV valve is leaking under boost. The best way to check this is to do a boost leak test with the valve unscrewed from the valve cover but still attached to the vacuum hose which connects it to the intake manifold. Pressurize the intake and check for air leaking past it. Since even most new oem valves tend to leak I recommend installing one these check valves inline between PCV valve and IM:

Liquid/Gas Check Valves - US Plastic Corporation

Also, I didn't realize that you had also replaced your UICP. Any work involving the intake should be followed by a boost leak test. A boost leak may be the reason for the poor idle and performance.

What is your vacuum at idle?

1) So do the boost leak test and fix the leaks (including PCV valve).
2) Check compression.
3) Consider replacing valve cover gasket and oil cap gasket (or just get a new oil cap).
4) Consider possibility of a cracked valve cover.
5) If there is oil down in the plug wells you need to get it out of there as it may cause misfire under load.

Let us know any abnormal findings or if you need help with any of the above. Good luck.

 

[meliketoball]

Just replace your PVC. It's probably clogged up and old. Or in the mean time CLEAN it! Then pop that sucker back in.

 

[BigDan]

Abnormal findings...........How bout this

Compression results
#1 0
#2 125
#3 0
#4 119

So if you you PVC hose falls off the airbox for 5 minutes you will bend your valve's. Does that sound right?

Does this make sence and did I do damage elsewhere?

Will I be ok if I change the valves or do I need to rebuild the whole thing.

Dan

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

seems you're missing 2 cylinders. I can tell you problem #1 was installing a 2G MAF without any fuel management to properly tune for the different MAF and stop detonation. Best case scenario you have a blown head gasket. worst case.. you're rebuilding that motor.

 

[JayRolla]

Yes, if you installed a 2g maf without any fuel management you where running incredibly lean. Most people install 550's and you still run a little lean. If you still had 450's in there that is most likely why you have loss compression.

 

[romeen]

Abnormal findings...........How bout this

Compression results
#1 0
#2 125
#3 0
#4 119

So if you you PVC hose falls off the airbox for 5 minutes you will bend your valve's. Does that sound right?

Does this make sence and did I do damage elsewhere?

Will I be ok if I change the valves or do I need to rebuild the whole thing.

Dan

Ouch! Do you know anyone who has a leakdown tester? How did the plugs from those cylinders look when you removed them?

 

[BigDan]

Yes, if you installed a 2g maf without any fuel management you where running incredibly lean. Most people install 550's and you still run a little lean. If you still had 450's in there that is most likely why you have loss compression.

Crap the guy I bought this stuff from threw in a set of 560cc injectors but I didnt install them because I searched and found out that I would need a walbro, SAFC, and a logger so I left them on my bench. I should of researched the 2g mas as well. I just figured since it was such a popular first mod that I wouldnt need injectors, SAFC, and logger for just a 2g intake.

I've always been a good researcher and know how to do things right but the one time I sliped up I blew my head up. Heck ive probably logged 100 hours of searching and reading posts here the past month.

The dead plugs were wet and oily and I pulled the wires while it was runnng and it didnt change much.

Any sugestions on how I should handle this and what I should do in the process like better springs?

This is actually my friends car and im not yet decided if I/we want to do the job ourselve's or not. I've installed 2 engines before but never had a head off and this looks like a difficult job.

What do you think the cost difference between doing it or having it done at a local dsm shop?

I know im gonna get head studs but what else do you think I should do while I got the head off?

Future plans are a good 13 second daily driver.

Thanks for the replies

 

[romeen]

I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to building engines but the problem may not be with the head/valves. You may have damaged/melted a piston. A leak down test will tell you where the problem is but at this point it sounds like the head is going to have to come off irregardless so the leak down may be a moot point.

Out of curiosity, did you have a lot of smoke out of the exhaust when the trouble started? Can you see any oil on the piston tops?

 

[tqmx1]

With wet & oiley plugs my guess is you knocked the ring lands out of the pistons. The head might have survived to fight another day. the only way you will find out for sure is pull it and see how much dammage has been done.

Pulling the engine apart is great fun a bit dirty but fun Just keep all the hardware sorted so when you or the machine shop put it back togther you have some idea where it all goes. Also pick up the Mitsubishi bible (factory scervice manual) you should not own one of these things unless you have one. (and not to sit on)

And if you loose any hardware you have the two Sunrise Pick&Pulls right down the hill.

Good luck on your choises only you and your buddy can make them.

 

[Stainbox12]

Dude, get ready to get your hands dirty. Either, you blew the headgasket, which i don't think its your case, or you melted 2 pistons. I vote for choice 2, you melted the pistons, cause you ran lean. Abnormal crankcase pressure, and oil everywhere is typically a symptom of negative compression. I've had this problem before, and i've melted a lot of pistons, because of running lean. Please, beware of the cheap fixes that are given to you. Listen to your skills, and the compression tester. I already knew what was going on, since your first post, i saw a bunch of replies that usually do not help at all the horrible symptoms you were or are experiencing. Don't listen to people that give you this kind of advice, because i've seen it before. You don't want those pistons rings ruining your cylinders. Every time you try some of the above you risk, to have a more costly rebuild. Whatever you choose. Good luck.

 

[bane3d]

Agreed on previouos poster. You won't be able to drive the car so go ahead and pull the head. You need to know what you are going to be getting into whether it's a head rebuild or full bottom end. Drain oil and drop pan, look from below to.

d

 

[meliketoball]

Dang, I could never have thought from a MAF and metal piping could hurt a motor so.

 

[BigDan]

Dang, I could never have thought from a MAF and metal piping could hurt a motor so.

Wow I had no idea either. I thought this problem would be more discussed, or a well knowen problem. I've read hundreds of threads and I never once read anything about a 2g mas on a 1g will destroy your engine.



Will piston/ring problems be aparent with the head off or should I do a leak down before I remove the head.

 

[kenamond]

Wow I had no idea either. I thought this problem would be more discussed, or a well knowen problem. I've read hundreds of threads and I never once read anything about a 2g mas on a 1g will destroy your engine.



Will piston/ring problems be aparent with the head off or should I do a leak down before I remove the head.

My guess, as others have also proposed, is that you were so lean that you broke a ring land or burned a piston, that drove crankcase pressure through the roof, and your dipstick, VC gaskets, and/or oil cap seal popped. I'm not sure if a leakdown will tell you anything you didn't already know, but maybe it's valves instead of rings/piston, and it'd tell you that.

Didn't any of the "2g mas on a 1g" threads mention the fuel issue?

 

[romeen]

Will piston/ring problems be aparent with the head off or should I do a leak down before I remove the head.

I can see reasoning for going either way on that. Personally I probably would. It is not a difficult test to do and on the small chance that something obvious isn't visible on visual examination then you will know where the problem is and where to focus your investigation. I know there is no concrete yes or no answer to that but this just seems more logical to me.

Just my opinion.

 

[siceclipse]

Dude Im sorry but I laughed a little when you said you were thinking of doing the motor after you just ####ed up by installing intake componants!

But hey, we've all done stupid shit before.
Im sorry to hear of your bad misfortune, but as said above, get ready to get your hands dirty!

You're gonna love doing this.

I blew the headgasket on my car and me and my 2 friends had a blast pulling the head and changing it out.

Grab a friend, some beers, make sure to have the internet at your finger tips, and go to town!

 

[BigDan]

Like I said before I had a brief lapse in jugement. We've all done it before.

Yeah im in it for the long haul. I think im gonna swap in a new/rebuilt/ or slightly used long block. It already needed a clutch so this way I can get everything done at once.

I've been wrenching for 12 years now building rockcrawlers, muscle, diesel hot rods cars and im not afraid of a engine swap since I have all the tools, garage, and you guy's.

I know you guys get alot of stupid noobs that dont know how to search, believe it or not I'm not one of thoes guy's.