2G No Start after motor rebuild.

[Jovie]

After a motor rebuild due to low compression my car is still not starting, I have tested the compression, fuel pressure, and timing and can not find a reason for this. The car is a 1998 Eclipse GSX, the top and bottom ends were rebuilt as well and all belts were replaced, the car sounds like it wants to start but will not. I have also tried gapping the spark plugs as well as using a new set and still, no start.

I have attached a file with the current tune on the ECU and will post a full log to get it to start tomorrow. Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you in advance.

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[CanadianTalonTC]

Did you make sure you plugged in the crank sensor (the plug on the timing cover above the AC compressor)?

I had a no start issue after a rebuild which sounded similar and it ended up being I had the crank sensor itself backwards so it wouldn't pick up the trigger plate. Your injector duty cycle shows 0 during the entire log while cranking which if the crank sensor is not being triggered/plugged in cuts injectors.

Also battery voltage dips pretty low while cranking.

 

[Jovie]

Did you make sure you plugged in the crank sensor (the plug on the timing cover above the AC compressor)?

I had a no start issue after a rebuild which sounded similar and it ended up being I had the crank sensor itself backwards so it wouldn't pick up the trigger plate. Your injector duty cycle shows 0 during the entire log while cranking which if the crank sensor is not being triggered/plugged in cuts injectors.

Also battery voltage dips pretty low while cranking.

Today I went through the crank and cam sensors and made sure all connections looked good, and that there was no obvious damage to them, I also recorded a few new logs which I will link below. While attempting to start I am getting around a 3 - 8 % duty ratio, I am not sure if this is low or normal, I also noticed that the battery voltage doesn't seem great, I am currently planning on taking that and the starter motor to a local AutoZone to have them tested hopefully tomorrow or someday soon as I noticed that on my last attempted start today there was a small amount of smoke that came from underneath the intake, near the starter motor on that left side. I did make sure it still cranked after and had no issues with it so it may just be hot but may aswell take it in with the battery to have them test it.

I also pulled the part plugs today to make sure that I was getting fuel and it seems like I am, although not much. Could this be a potential wiring issue? There is a small area on my wiring harness where there was previously some sort of damage done and it has black electrical tape covering it, I have yet to dig into this part as I was having no issues until now.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Battery voltage was better in these logs. I see some duty cycle. My car is currently being retimed in my garage (and I'm on my computer not doing it at the moment ) so I can't do an identical start log to check but I can later this week.

Have you swapped the firing order for ECMLink?

ECMlink - Firing order isn't what it should be?

Okay I wasn't sure where to post this, I just completed my 6 bolt swap. -It a 97 eclipse gsx -95 EPROM -1g cas -inverted casSo everything is wired properly etc etc.. Did my homework so I didn't have to ask questions.Seems to be guaranteed that the firing order is 3214 going off ecm's wiring...

www.dsmtuners.com

Edit: I also am overlooking a few things. Number one, fill out your vehicle profile (here is mine for an example https://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/1998-eagle-talon.16188/). Then we can see your mods and such. Do you have factory injectors? Cause it shows in link there is no scaling and I see an AFPR in there...

 

[Jovie]

Battery voltage was better in these logs. I see some duty cycle. My car is currently being retimed in my garage (and I'm on my computer not doing it at the moment ) so I can't do an identical start log to check but I can later this week.

Have you swapped the firing order for ECMLink?

ECMlink - Firing order isn't what it should be?

Okay I wasn't sure where to post this, I just completed my 6 bolt swap. -It a 97 eclipse gsx -95 EPROM -1g cas -inverted casSo everything is wired properly etc etc.. Did my homework so I didn't have to ask questions.Seems to be guaranteed that the firing order is 3214 going off ecm's wiring...

www.dsmtuners.com

Edit: I also am overlooking a few things. Number one, fill out your vehicle profile (here is mine for an example https://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/1998-eagle-talon.16188/). Then we can see your mods and such. Do you have factory injectors? Cause it shows in link there is no scaling and I see an AFPR in there...

Success !!

You were 100% correct, after messing with the firing order + spark plug wire orientation a bit it sprung to life, It died a few minutes later and seemed to be idling a bit rough but did start and continue to run for a few minutes. I'm not 100% sure what could have caused it to die as it stopped abruptly and a squealing noise came from the timing side of the engine, I made sure all belts were good and in timing, and then it started back up immediately after.
I believe it may need a new battery or potentially an alternator as it needs to be jumped again after this log and I'm not currently able to do it. If you have any suggestions as to why it may be idling weird let me know, thank you for all your help so far !

Ps - I will make sure to set up my profile.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Get the battery sorted out/drop one in from your daily for testing if you need. Doesn't need to fit perfect just don't close the hood and short it out or something. Poor electrical performance can cause headaches that are near impossible to track plus risk of damage to sensitive components.

So just going over your log here:

I see the car is fully warmed up, so it must have ran for a bit.

What wide band are you using and how are you logging it? I can't seem to view it but the AFR EST is 12.1 AFR at idle on a fully warmed up car, in closed loop with a well switching narrowband. Is that AFR accurate? Your CombinedFT is hovering around 15% with your STFT at 5% so it's trying to add 20% fuel, something is going on here for sure.

Your TPS is showing .64v at idle, either adjust it manually and reset it per factory service manual or use the scaling log feature. https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/dsmlinktpsadjustment

Your airflow per rev at idle is .37gm/min at idle which is way too high. This is leading me to believe this car has a bunch of mods without a proper setup in link, I can see a GM MAF in the video but honestly I have never used one (I'm on SD) so I'm not sure what the setup should look like on the log side. There are not too many tabs changed in direct access though so that is questionable. I see that you have fans full on, why? Were you having overheating issues prior to the rebuild? This will affect airflow per rev, not help with your battery issues and they should be cycling normally already.

ISC is out of adjustment at 39 warmed up (although your fans are on), doesn't look like lrnidle was logged so I cant view it.

It shows you have an OMNI 4 bar entered in your inputs, however I don't see the input for it filled out for datalogging side pin assignments, only ECU side. It won't view on my log either.

You've got some problem solving to do for sure, lets get that profile filled out so we can see what mods we have cause we can't really do anything else until then. Do you have a log from prior to the rebuild? Why did this car end up with low compression? Was it a professional tuner that wrote this (don't need names just curious if we are flying blind). Note that this is not a definitive list of issues either, just what I noticed running through it.

 

[Jovie]

Get the battery sorted out/drop one in from your daily for testing if you need. Doesn't need to fit perfect just don't close the hood and short it out or something. Poor electrical performance can cause headaches that are near impossible to track plus risk of damage to sensitive components.

So just going over your log here:

I see the car is fully warmed up, so it must have ran for a bit.

What wide band are you using and how are you logging it? I can't seem to view it but the AFR EST is 12.1 AFR at idle on a fully warmed up car, in closed loop with a well switching narrowband. Is that AFR accurate? Your CombinedFT is hovering around 15% with your STFT at 5% so it's trying to add 20% fuel, something is going on here for sure.

Your TPS is showing .64v at idle, either adjust it manually and reset it per factory service manual or use the scaling log feature. https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/dsmlinktpsadjustment

Your airflow per rev at idle is .37gm/min at idle which is way too high. This is leading me to believe this car has a bunch of mods without a proper setup in link, I can see a GM MAF in the video but honestly I have never used one (I'm on SD) so I'm not sure what the setup should look like on the log side. There are not too many tabs changed in direct access though so that is questionable. I see that you have fans full on, why? Were you having overheating issues prior to the rebuild? This will affect airflow per rev, not help with your battery issues and they should be cycling normally already.

ISC is out of adjustment at 39 warmed up (although your fans are on), doesn't look like lrnidle was logged so I cant view it.

It shows you have an OMNI 4 bar entered in your inputs, however I don't see the input for it filled out for datalogging side pin assignments, only ECU side. It won't view on my log either.

You've got some problem solving to do for sure, lets get that profile filled out so we can see what mods we have cause we can't really do anything else until then. Do you have a log from prior to the rebuild? Why did this car end up with low compression? Was it a professional tuner that wrote this (don't need names just curious if we are flying blind). Note that this is not a definitive list of issues either, just what I noticed running through it.

Yes, the car ran for a while ( 5 or so minutes ) and sounded rough tune-wise but good mechanically. I had the fans running as the exhaust was burning off a bit of oil and I did not want all the smoke sticking around while I was trying to make sure nothing had caught fire or issues were happening.

I currently have an AEM wideband but do not have it wired to the ECU as I was cleaning up some other wiring in the dash and it was never previously hooked. I will make sure to get that hooked up for any future logs so it is easier to read. I believe the estimated AFR was relatively accurate to the real thing but not dead on or off by around 0.1 - 0.2 while driving although I am not 100% sure about that.

I will make sure to adjust the TPS, I did it manually but for some reason, it is still reading that it is at 1% so I will do it via link.

As for my MAF, I have this exact MAF and after looking on this thread I belive it is stock and I should keep it the same, if I am wrong please let me know.

I will leave my oldest log below, I don't believe much has changed from that to my more recent ones although I could have changed something with the original tune on accident and not realized it, messing it all up. I will try and contact the original owner tomorrow and see if he has any logs he could send me from before as he owned the car for at least a year or so before selling it to me. I set up my profile to the best of my knowledge and will continue to add to it as I learn/find more things.

I'm planning to leave the ISC for now and will see if the numbers are in a more normal range with the fans off. I am not too sure what the lrnidle is so any help explaining would be much appreciated as I can't seem to find anything online about it or things in link that go by that name.

I believe the OMNI 4 bar may have been a boost controller that I found in the car, it was nonfunctional and not wired up from day 1 so I will be removing that from all further logs once I add in the AFR gauge.

I am still not 100% sure the reason why the car ended up with low compression but I believe it was a combination of bad engine building, multiple piston rings had been gapped incorrectly at far too small of values 0.011 and 0.013 which are now set at 0.015 and 0.017 with the second ring being set to a larger gap, there was also an issue with multiple valves conditions aswell as the rod bearings which were definitely on their way out, there was also a few small oil leaks so I figured may aswell. As for the tune, I am not sure who wrote it, It may have been the previous owner or a friend of his, I believe he said that it was not professionally tuned.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Thank you for filling out your profile, it answered a bunch of my questions I had already. The only major changes I see are the injector scaling, and it appears that you have swapped back to 450cc so that makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions carefully as well.

Can you post a photo of the entire engine bay along with closeups of the MDP sensor? Want to ensure we are running stock gear if that is what it is set to.

Lrnidleajust is basically a long term trim for the ISC is my understanding. Should be around 144.

Lastly, it may be prudent to start a thread in tuning now that the car has been running and we are progressing to further issues as this is resolved. I highly recommend the following links:

For future logs follow this template for minimums: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/list-of-values-to-log.444831/

Go through this thread: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/w...r-receive-no-replies-from-the-wisemen.443297/

 

[Jovie]

Thank you for filling out your profile, it answered a bunch of my questions I had already. The only major changes I see are the injector scaling, and it appears that you have swapped back to 450cc so that makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions carefully as well.

Can you post a photo of the entire engine bay along with closeups of the MDP sensor? Want to ensure we are running stock gear if that is what it is set to.

Lrnidleajust is basically a long term trim for the ISC is my understanding. Should be around 144.

Lastly, it may be prudent to start a thread in tuning now that the car has been running and we are progressing to further issues as this is resolved. I highly recommend the following links:

For future logs follow this template for minimums: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/list-of-values-to-log.444831/

Go through this thread: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/w...r-receive-no-replies-from-the-wisemen.443297/

Below I have linked a few photos of my engine bay aswell as the spot where I have my wideband bung, the sticker on my MAF is a bit worn but still mostly legible. This morning I wired in my AEM x series wide band gauge into the BARO pin and I believe I set it up correctly in link ( although I am not certain ) and added in the values that the thread you linked said to, I believe my settings are correct and I will be making a thread in the tuning section after adjusting my TPS later tonight and installing my newer AFR sensor as this one looks like it is in rough condition.

Edit : Is the BARO a good pin to substitute for ? I honestly don't know how big of an effect it will have and am wondering if I should keep it here or move it to another pin, if so what would be a better pin as I would like to take it on road trips and such.

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[CanadianTalonTC]

Below I have linked a few photos of my engine bay aswell as the spot where I have my wideband bung, the sticker on my MAF is a bit worn but still mostly legible. This morning I wired in my AEM x series wide band gauge into the BARO pin and I believe I set it up correctly in link ( although I am not certain ) and added in the values that the thread you linked said to, I believe my settings are correct and I will be making a thread in the tuning section after adjusting my TPS later tonight and installing my newer AFR sensor as this one looks like it is in rough condition.

Edit : Is the BARO a good pin to substitute for ? I honestly don't know how big of an effect it will have and am wondering if I should keep it here or move it to another pin, if so what would be a better pin as I would like to take it on road trips and such.

Looks like you have your omni 4 bar in there now so that is good. I'm curious to see a log with it properly setup, I imagine it will be fueling much better vs thinking the stock one is running. On your pin assignments for datalogging put the MDP sensor to be your Omni so we can log it properly.

Other than that, settings look okay to me.

I personally run my wideband through my rear 02 wiring at the ECU (AEM UEGO), I wired it there about 6 years ago and haven't had any issues. I've included a log so you can view my settings if you are interested. Don't judge the log itself too hard, I'm retuning my car myself and doing some experimentation .

 

[Jovie]

Looks like you have your omni 4 bar in there now so that is good. I'm curious to see a log with it properly setup, I imagine it will be fueling much better vs thinking the stock one is running. On your pin assignments for datalogging put the MDP sensor to be your Omni so we can log it properly.

Other than that, settings look okay to me.

I personally run my wideband through my rear 02 wiring at the ECU (AEM UEGO), I wired it there about 6 years ago and haven't had any issues. I've included a log so you can view my settings if you are interested. Don't judge the log itself too hard, I'm retuning my car myself and doing some experimentation .

Okay, does this seem to be correct ( in theory )? I changed the manifold pressure to MDP instead of Baro, turned off the lock intake temperature and barometric pressure and MDP will be set to the Omni Bar ( it will not let me change it till I am hooked into the car ).

Edit : also I think making my rear o2 will likely make the most sense for me aswell so ill change that along with these.

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[CanadianTalonTC]

Okay, does this seem to be correct ( in theory )? I changed the manifold pressure to MDP instead of Baro, turned off the lock intake temperature and barometric pressure and MDP will be set to the Omni Bar ( it will not let me change it till I am hooked into the car ).

Edit : also I think making my rear o2 will likely make the most sense for me aswell so ill change that along with these.

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Looks good to me but double check your wideband settings as there are several options of AEM and ECMtuning has a guide.

Also if you don't mind, mark my post as a solution for future searchers of the same topic. Streamlines the process and you never know who it helps .