2G Slow Crank No start after rebuild

[Loueg702]

OK,

First forgive me for any noob status. First build but not new to mechanics just cars. Normally work on motorcycles, now I know. 2 different worlds.

1996 Eclipse GST Stock , no mods other than exhaust and a downpipe.

Bought the car from a kid who thought he blew it up, turns out he ran out of clutch fluid. At the time I had a couple other cars so I figured to do a full rebuild. 2 and a half years later I got it back together.

Crank head and block were "redone" by a machine shop and prepared for reassembly which I did. Turned out, wrong main bearings were sent to me. So another pull and another mic of the crank, right mains put in, assembled and timing set. Rotation by hand is fine, but for some reason I get a super slow crank and eventually the starter stops trying and its like I have a dead battery. The crank is so slow its not getting a proper rotation to fire the motor. Huge power draw in my opinion and I SUCK with electrical.

Details to note to understand a possible issue :

The temp plug was ripped off as well as the knock sensor plug, harness to plugs on each. (I had plans to just pigtail new ones to the harness of course but didn't know if that would draw power from the starter)
The neutral safety switch is bypassed. (wired together)
Oil Pressure wire needs to be replaced
New battery
New starter
Even when jumped it still dies out
Lights dim after a couple cranks
Full power with acc on , all lights work, windows, door locks etc, just slow crank and no start...

Everything is stock. Crank rotates fine by hand. Willing to pay someone to solve this problem for me. Car started and ran fine when I got it just didn't have clutch pressure. Not missing anything stupid etc

 

[waltah]

Nothing in the car draws power on the scale of the starter motor so for a slow crank problem none of the rest matters. Example -- headlamps maybe 10-15 amps, starter 100 or more.

One possibility would be a bad connection or wire between the battery and starter but having tried cranking it so often I'd expect you'd have seen smoke or smelled something if it was very high resistance due to a loose terminal or ???

If not a bad connection this sounds like greatly excessive friction. Was everything lubed as it was assembled? How sure are you about the sizes of the big end of the rod bearings as well as the mains?

When assembling the bottom it's good to feel each bearing's end play as it's tightened. Crank end play should be free (though slight) when lightly pried, each rod free to pressure from your fingers. This stuff can be checked with the engine in, though I'm not sure how easy it is to get the pan off -- haven't yet done that on my '95 GS-T.

If the problem is one or more bearings there may be damage there. The anti-friction layer on modern bearings is so thin that they take very little abuse.

 

[Loueg702]

Second starter, first one yes, did smoke and then I replaced it thinking it was the starter …still having the same problem. Engine turns over fine by hand. Lubed everything that needed it when assembled. Especially mains.

Now as far as what you said per friction. First set of mains that were wrong , yes I did see damage on a couple of bearings when I changed them to the right ones. Those were so tight I couldn’t move the motor by hand. I removed the motor re measured and ordered as to what is supposed to be right, which is what’s in there now and like I said, by hand feels normal. I’m going to trace the harness tonight and see about any damaged or frayed wires.

 

[waltah]

With someone else having partly assembled the engine there could be all sorts of issues. You say the engine turns freely but the starter can't do it ... that sounds like a starter to engine mechanical issue.

Isn't there a cover plate between the starter and the bell housing that provides a bit of extra spacing between the starter and pinion gear? I think I've heard of people leaving that out and having problems with starting due to a bind.

Certainly I'll look at the starter side of the ring gear for evidence of bad engagement.

 

[AWD-Tony]

There’s should be a ground on the harness that run along the top of the bell housing. Can you verify that’s installed?

 

[Loueg702]

With someone else having partly assembled the engine there could be all sorts of issues. You say the engine turns freely but the starter can't do it ... that sounds like a starter to engine mechanical issue.

Isn't there a cover plate between the starter and the bell housing that provides a bit of extra spacing between the starter and pinion gear? I think I've heard of people leaving that out and having problems with starting due to a bind.

Certainly I'll look at the starter side of the ring gear for evidence of bad engagement.

So I did the complete assembly, I had the block dipped and cleaned , honed and ready for assembly , head was completely redone with new everything, valves, seals, oil injectors etc... UPDATE : I ended up playing with a couple things including making a better connection to the safety neutral switch which was rewired when I got it....Engine cranked....had to remove the battery to tight up a couple things under it , put the battery back in and now it wont even crank. Friend of mine mentioned something about the stock alarm, when I lock the doors the security light comes on. Resetting the battery maybe the cause kicking in an immobilizer?

 

[Loueg702]

There’s should be a ground on the harness that run along the top of the bell housing. Can you verify that’s installed?

The one that runs on the shock tower? Just put a new connection on tonight and I have a no crank scenario...most of the problems in my original post have ben fixed but heres my update ....I ended up playing with a couple things including making a better connection to the safety neutral switch which was rewired when I got it....Engine cranked....had to remove the battery to tight up a couple things under it , put the battery back in and now it wont even crank. Friend of mine mentioned something about the stock alarm, when I lock the doors the security light comes on. Resetting the battery maybe the cause kicking in an immobilizer? This thing is bone stock except for the air filter , downpipe and exhaust. Cranked until I took the battery out.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Factory never had a ground on the strut tower. Can you post a pic of your engine bay? The ground I mentioned is on the harness that runs above the bell housing and the engine. It should be connected to the the starter bolt. If moving the battery triggered the issue again, I’d start checking the starter circuit. The power wire is direct to 12v, grounded by the body & bolts and lastly the trigger wire. When it doesn’t start, do you heat a single click from the starter?

Anyone know if the engine cranks when factory alarm is active?

 

[waltah]

Anyone know if the engine cranks when factory alarm is active?

I spent a bit of time studying the '97 Talon circuit diagram and reading the owner's manual: When the theft alarm is activated (but not merely when it's armed) the starter relay is disabled so the engine will not crank. That diagram goes on for several pages so I can't say more than that about the details.

Since you don't mention the horn blowing and the lights flashing it doesn't look like a full alarm system is activating but it could be that the theft alarm starter relay is activated and something else is killing the rest of the 'alarm activated' action.

The honking/flashing shuts off after 3 minutes. I am not sure whether the car should start then or whether the alarm can be immediately re-activated (and the starting relay disabled) if the improper condition (opening of any door/hatch without a key) is still in effect.

Have you tried the actions that would deactivate the alarm? Operating the key in either direction in either door or the rear hatch. It does not appear to me (reading Owner's Manual) that the key in the ignition will deactivate the alarm.

Be okay with me if I never have to work on this circuit.

 

[AWD-Tony]

I spent a bit of time studying the '97 Talon circuit diagram and reading the owner's manual: When the theft alarm is activated (but not merely when it's armed) the starter relay is disabled so the engine will not crank. That diagram goes on for several pages so I can't say more than that about the details.

Since you don't mention the horn blowing and the lights flashing it doesn't look like a full alarm system is activating but it could be that the theft alarm starter relay is activated and something else is killing the rest of the 'alarm activated' action.

The honking/flashing shuts off after 3 minutes. I am not sure whether the car should start then or whether the alarm can be immediately re-activated (and the starting relay disabled) if the improper condition (opening of any door/hatch without a key) is still in effect.

Have you tried the actions that would deactivate the alarm? Operating the key in either direction in either door or the rear hatch. It does not appear to me (reading Owner's Manual) that the key in the ignition will deactivate the alarm.

Be okay with me if I never have to work on this circuit.

I had to use the key in the drivers door when it happened to me. Never tried the trunk/didn’t have to. Brand new and the thing would go off for no reason. Iirc it won’t stop when you cycle the ignition.