Newbie 14b build.

[CanadianTalonTC]

Hey guys,

So I have a 97 Talon TSI. Has 105,000 miles (170,000km) on the clock. Picked it up a few weeks ago, really enjoying the site and it's been helping me a ton.

I previously owned a 2006 Cobalt SS/SC seen below that I had modded quite a bit.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I loved the car, but wasn't a huge fan of FWD and wanted to go to school so anyways I sold her and bought this car for pretty cheap. I don't know much about turbos but I'm learning. I know a lot about superchargers though haha.

So moving on, I picked up a used 14b turbo with very little shaft play, new gaskets, bolts, 02 housing and j pipe for $100. I then got a Walbro 190 fuel pump, AEM EUGO wideband, AEM Tru boost boost controller and boost gauge and a dash pod for around the cluster. I'm going to see if my HPTuners software will log this (I think it will, havn't checked yet).

I've been searching around and I'm stuck on what system I should use for tuning. Would a SAFC be sufficient? What else do I need for this build? Also are 550CC injectors sufficient? I'm a pretty noob tuner. I had just gotten HPTuners as I got rid of my car. So this will end up being my compiled question/build thread. Sorry for being long winded!

Joel

 

[Bud92gsx]

What are your goals for the car 300-400hp-500hp..If your not going to mod lightly, i would go with dsmlink... ECMTuning, Inc.

Heres how to check your ecu and see if you have a chipped(eprom) ecu.. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ecu-eprom-vs-non-eprom-visual-comparison.html

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

I'd really like to get 300, I've looked in to DSMlink. I was thinking of selling my HPtuners and getting it.

Joel

 

[my dreamt dsm]

If your not looking for a million whp... 14b, 550, safc, walbro 190 should get you some good numbers.

 

[Tyeler18]

Swap to a flashable 98/99 ecu and go with ecuflash/evoscan. The tuning cable cost's $190 brand new, the software is $25, ecu can be had for $125 pretty easily, I've seen a few go for under $90 though. Same features as link, just it's the evo version of ecmlink. It'll be cheaper and easier to get ahold of.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Thanks for the input guys, I'll look into everything I was just told. For oil/water lines what do I need? The 14b came with 1 oil and 1 water line, I think they are feeds. How do I tell?

Also, what BOV do you guys recommend (recirculated of course!)? Just get a 1G and call it a day? Is a FMIC worth it with a 14b? Would you reccomend hard charge pipes? New downpipe?

Thanks!

Joel

 

[4Lurker4]

I doubt you'll need a fmic, it helps, but you can do without (just open up the wheel well and put a better tract to funnel air in). 1g bov will work perfectly for your type of set up, proven bov that sounds great and holds boost strong (either garage-modded or not). Hard pipes will help, but buy them only when you made your choice on fmic or smic as the piping routing will usually be different.

Also for your goals, you can achieve them through an SAFC, sure you'll get a better tune off link or ecuflash, but again, not needed if you're going for essentials and small budget.

 

[Bud92gsx]

1g bov and call it a day, unless you want to be loud..
A fmic will help you at higher boost levels on a 14b..YOu could alwyas go sidemount intercooler if you don't want to make more than 350whp..

Wait actually the water cooled ones are rated to 500hp..

But fmic's are more efficiant than the smic because there right up front and get the most air..And the stock SMIC will heat soat rather upwards of 15psi..

 

[Tyeler18]

Thanks for the input guys, I'll look into everything I was just told. For oil/water lines what do I need? The 14b came with 1 oil and 1 water line, I think they are feeds. How do I tell?

Also, what BOV do you guys recommend (recirculated of course!)? Just get a 1G and call it a day? Is a FMIC worth it with a 14b? Would you reccomend hard charge pipes? New downpipe?

Thanks!

Joel

You need 4 lines if you plan on running both oil and coolant. Some people choose to block the coolant lines, which is debateable on whether or not it's harmful. Take a look on here for a picture of what lines you have/need.

For a 14b a crushed 1g bov would suit you well, but there are others that work too depending on if you care much about sound.

FMIC mainly depends on what kind of racing (if any) you plan on doing with the car. Road course/autox a large FMIC is going to hurt you both spool wise and temperature wise. If you plan on dragging and pushing this turbo to it's limit a mid range FMIC wouldn't be a horrible idea. You can heat soak the stock SMIC pretty easily with the 14b either way. I personally am using a water to air intercooler because my 1g is road course/autox oriented.

Hard pipes are definitely a good choice, but you need to decide if you're using the stock intercooler, fmic, or whatever.

Downpipe will be a must. The stock downpipe we found was a good restriction on our 2g with a 14b. A full exhaust system actually would be best.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

I doubt you'll need a fmic, it helps, but you can do without (just open up the wheel well and put a better tract to funnel air in). 1g bov will work perfectly for your type of set up, proven bov that sounds great and holds boost strong (either garage-modded or not). Hard pipes will help, but buy them only when you made your choice on fmic or smic as the piping routing will usually be different.

Also for your goals, you can achieve them through an SAFC, sure you'll get a better tune off link or ecuflash, but again, not needed if you're going for essentials and small budget.

I've read a lot about the 1G, and it seems that everyone recommended it again here so I'll pick one up. I'll do more digging into IC's. Thanks for the input. When you say put in a better tract, is there some sort of ducting kit for our cars?

1g bov and call it a day, unless you want to be loud..
A fmic will help you at higher boost levels on a 14b..YOu could alwyas go sidemount intercooler if you don't want to make more than 350whp..

Wait actually the water cooled ones are rated to 500hp..

But fmic's are more efficiant than the smic because there right up front and get the most air..And the stock SMIC will heat soat rather upwards of 15psi..

I'm not really looking for sound, I really like the "I didn't see that coming" aspect of cars (My Cobalt was great for that haha). I'm not really looking to make upwards of 350 on this car, I'd like to but I'm headed back to school and the pay to play risk goes up with HP . My old car had a water to air set-up and I actually really liked it. I'll look into those too.

You need 4 lines if you plan on running both oil and coolant. Some people choose to block the coolant lines, which is debateable on whether or not it's harmful. Take a look on here for a picture of what lines you have/need.
For a 14b a crushed 1g bov would suit you well, but there are others that work too depending on if you care much about sound.

FMIC mainly depends on what kind of racing (if any) you plan on doing with the car. Road course/autox a large FMIC is going to hurt you both spool wise and temperature wise. If you plan on dragging and pushing this turbo to it's limit a mid range FMIC wouldn't be a horrible idea. You can heat soak the stock SMIC pretty easily with the 14b either way. I personally am using a water to air intercooler because my 1g is road course/autox oriented.

Hard pipes are definitely a good choice, but you need to decide if you're using the stock intercooler, fmic, or whatever.

Downpipe will be a must. The stock downpipe we found was a good restriction on our 2g with a 14b. A full exhaust system actually would be best.

I enjoy the track, but really want to try out Autox, I've never road raced before but it looks like a blast. I need to find somewhere in my area to do it.

My car came with a 3" exhaust, unfortunately it's a crush bend special... It's also louder than hell. What size is recommended for a 300ish whp Talon? I'll be ordering a downpipe for sure then. Is catless worth it on these cars (I've never done catless before personally). I don't want to sound cheap, but it is a LOT cheaper for a catless. Do you guys delete cat codes from the ECU or just use oxygen defoulers if you go catless?

Joel

 

[Absit]

My car came with a 3" exhaust, unfortunately it's a crush bend special... It's also louder than hell. What size is recommended for a 300ish whp Talon?

Stock would be ideal, especially if you want it quiet.
2.5" is the largest I'd go, but I'm all about using the smallest quietest exhaust possible.

A lot of people here will blindly say 3". Some will argue that if you go 3" now you're good in case you want more power later. Some will say "z it luks kewl and iz lowd."

 

[kqodprez]

Bro just go with the safc and 1g bov. Since you are in school don't go for broke. Since your goals are mild and attainable stay within a school budget. 300hp is great trust me!!! Oh and if you find a cheap set of 650's grab those as they are the largest you can run with a safc and will provide a greater range for tuning...

 

[4Lurker4]

Some will say "z it luks kewl and iz lowd."

hahaha

I've read a lot about the 1G, and it seems that everyone recommended it again here so I'll pick one up. I'll do more digging into IC's. Thanks for the input. When you say put in a better tract, is there some sort of ducting kit for our cars?

If you like the stock look yet want some decent power as you mentioned, the ducting will help you a lot. You could even complement it with water/meth injection for some extra cooling (many threads on that if you search). The ducting is not something a company makes, but it's easy to do and makes a big difference on how much air your intercooler is getting.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/338863-sheet-metal-smic-duct.html

I'll also recommend getting stock or 2.5" exhaust if you want to stay quiet. You don't need 3" for the power you're looking anywho.

 

[dsmboost84]

Bro just go with the safc and 1g bov. Since you are in school don't go for broke. Since your goals are mild and attainable stay within a school budget. 300hp is great trust me!!! Oh and if you find a cheap set of 650's grab those as they are the largest you can run with a safc and will provide a greater range for tuning...

Agreed, and very well put.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Bro just go with the safc and 1g bov. Since you are in school don't go for broke. Since your goals are mild and attainable stay within a school budget. 300hp is great trust me!!! Oh and if you find a cheap set of 650's grab those as they are the largest you can run with a safc and will provide a greater range for tuning...

That's what I'm aiming for haha.

So for the SAFC, is this what I need then?

Apexi safc (super Air Flow Converter) - Alberta Other Parts, Accessories For Sale - Kijiji Alberta Canada.

Also these, dsm talon eclipse top feed injectors - Alberta Engine, Engine Parts For Sale - Kijiji Alberta Canada.

If you like the stock look yet want some decent power as you mentioned, the ducting will help you a lot. You could even complement it with water/meth injection for some extra cooling (many threads on that if you search). The ducting is not something a company makes, but it's easy to do and makes a big difference on how much air your intercooler is getting.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/arti...smic-duct.html

I'll also recommend getting stock or 2.5" exhaust if you want to stay quiet. You don't need 3" for the power you're looking anywho.

Thanks again guys! My friend has a stock exhaust, maybe he'd want to trade straight across haha. Thanks for that link also.

Joel

 

[Absit]

I'd still recommend a H8/Evo 8 ECU over an SAFC. It won't be much more, and is infintely more capable.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

I'd still recommend a H8/Evo 8 ECU over an SAFC. It won't be much more, and is infintely more capable.

I spent some time looking into this, seems like a pain to repin but may be worth it, more reading to ensue as per usual .

Here is what I have as far as turbo parts, I couldn't find any photos of what lines were return and what ones were feed. So here is a photo, taking into consideration I have all my T25 lines still can I get this in or will I need another line?

Thanks!

Joel

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[TJCTalon]

You will need one more line. 2g oil their turbos from the oil filter housing, and 1gs oil their turbos from the head. Mitsu turbos like the lower oil pressure (from the head)

So basically you need a oil feed from the head. You can use all the coolant lines from the t-25, but it looks like you have everything else covered.

Just a heads up, if you have a free flowing exhaust, you might have some boost creeping issues when you put in that 14b. I suggest you port the turbine housing before you install.

Let me know if you need any more help. I have replaced the 14b on my 2g 5 times already.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

You will need one more line. 2g oil their turbos from the oil filter housing, and 1gs oil their turbos from the head. Mitsu turbos like the lower oil pressure (from the head)

So basically you need a oil feed from the head. You can use all the coolant lines from the t-25, but it looks like you have everything else covered.

Just a heads up, if you have a free flowing exhaust, you might have some boost creeping issues when you put in that 14b. I suggest you port the turbine housing before you install.

Let me know if you need any more help. I have replaced the 14b on my 2g 5 times already.

That's lame, I'll have everything waiting for me at the border Monday besides that line. Shopping from Canada ftl. I gave a little search but since you guys know your stuff, am I able to create a line for it? or am I better off just ordering one?

Thanks for the heads up. Also, does porting stop boost creep? the exhaust side of it is ported but the cold side isn't.

Joel

 

[TJCTalon]

Well from the looks of it, you might have the oil feed line, you will need the banjo bolts for it though. I bought my oil feed line from extremepsi.com. Do you have any bolts that arnt in the picture?

It does look like the 14b is ported. But I cant tell how well. The hotside is what your going to have to worry about. On my unported 14b I was seeing 21psi with no boost controler. Not good on a stock car. After porting it for a smooth transition to the flapper hole, I held 12psi with a 3 inch dp and 2.5 inch o2 housing.

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

Well from the looks of it, you might have the oil feed line, you will need the banjo bolts for it though. I bought my oil feed line from extremepsi.com. Do you have any bolts that arnt in the picture?

It does look like the 14b is ported. But I cant tell how well. The hotside is what your going to have to worry about. On my unported 14b I was seeing 21psi with no boost controler. Not good on a stock car. After porting it for a smooth transition to the flapper hole, I held 12psi with a 3 inch dp and 2.5 inch o2 housing.

I bought an AEM Tru boost electronic boost controller, that should control boost creep won't it? I'll get a better photo of the exhaust. It's ported, but it's not perfect. I was planning on going over it anyways.

Yes I have the banjo bolts, it came with a bunch of bolts actually. Exhaust manifold, banjo fittings, ones I'm not even sure are for . I'm working on it though haha.

Thanks again,

Joel

 

[1990AWD]

Just an FYI, for us Canadian guys, we have RTM Racing out of Ontario. Prices are slightly higher than the American, but that's because he (owner Ziggy) has to ship everything to him just to have it in stock. The best part is shipping is cheap and it can get to you in two days. Oh, and btw, Ziggy is a great guy to deal with!

 

[4Lurker4]

Just an FYI, for us Canadian guys, we have RTM Racing out of Ontario. Prices are slightly higher than the American, but that's because he (owner Ziggy) has to ship everything to him just to have it in stock. The best part is shipping is cheap and it can get to you in two days. Oh, and btw, Ziggy is a great guy to deal with!

I second that, Ziggy is THE man

You can buy what you're missing in his turbo kits, he's got everything you need for a turbo install.

https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/home.php?cat=428 linky linky

and for the turbo install specifically https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/home.php?cat=1392&sort=orderby&sort_direction=0&page=1

 

[CanadianTalonTC]

To the two guys above me, sweet! Glad to see a Canadian vendor.

Also, anyone know what the verdict is with hoses? From what I've found I think I have an oil feed and return line, and should be able to use my coolant ones from the T25, is this correct?

Joel

 

[TJCTalon]

Yes I believe your all good to go. Your going to need oil and coolant. Maybe some crush washers for the banjo bolts and gaskets for the oil return.

You got the big stuff covered. Let us know if you hit any more snags