New to tuning... new setup

[95talongirl]

Last year I had the car dyno-tuned on the stock cams, engine and a 16g. It had a 190 pump, 650cc injectors, GM MAF and FMIC. Car was tuned with DSMlink v3. Tuned to 19psi. Then developed an overheating problem....

Well.. fast forward a year. Car underwent a complete overhaul. Fresh rebuild with forged pistons, ARP hardware, FP 272/272 cams, 16g, FMIC, re-wired 255 pump with an FPR.. 650cc injectors. I loaded last year's file into the computer and ran the car. It runs pretty smooth, but lean. I kinda expected that...

WB reads 15.2 to 16.5 at and given time. When you give it some throttle it'll drop to 14's. So yeah... not liking that.

Base fuel pressure is set to 42psi.

Of course I haven't been able to drive the car anywhere yet... but honestly just looking for advise on how to set this thing up safely for when it comes time to drive it. then go from there.

Thanks for bearing with me and for any pointers... never really had a chance to mess around in the tuning realm.

 

[T is for TURBO]

check for exhaust leaks pre wideband. If your running the same turbo with the same injectors and a larger fuel pump, I can't image you would be running lean.

 

[95talongirl]

ok, will do!

 

[kahl23]

Those are definitely some good things to check out, but the cams are having some effect as well. How are your airflow numbers now comparing to what they were before? More air with the same fuel will make you lean.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

I would re-do the intial setup of the maf and airflow after the rebuild.

v3mafadjcombft [ECMTuning - wiki]

http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/initialsetup.html

Also, fuel pressure should be 43.5psi

 

[Chicken Patty]

I would read and follow this guide:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/262460-basic-dsmlink-tuning-guide.html

It's easy enough and you can do yourself. Once you do that, post an idle log for us and we'll give you a hand from there. If you want I can even do some tweaks and email you the file, then you can just upload it and copy all settings to ECU.

Once you can idle within specs, we'll go from there.

 

[95talongirl]

Thanks everyone! Will report back once I get to is again this week.

 

[doubleclutch99]

Post up an idle log, and we can help you from there.

 

[91stocker]

I would read and follow this guide:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/262460-basic-dsmlink-tuning-guide.html

It's easy enough and you can do yourself. Once you do that, post an idle log for us and we'll give you a hand from there. If you want I can even do some tweaks and email you the file, then you can just upload it and copy all settings to ECU.

Once you can idle within specs, we'll go from there.

Thats a damn nice guide right there.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Thats a damn nice guide right there.

Can't recommend it enough.

 

[95talongirl]

Ok, this is a clipped section form when it ran for about 30 mins over the weekend. Tried to grab a piece of when it was revved up some and then back to idle.

Going to look at that quick reference guide above and compare, as well. Thank you for the help!

 

[Chicken Patty]

I have to wait till I get off work to view. I'll revert then, hopefully others can view it on the meantime and give some feedback, the more feedback the better.

 

[snowborder714]

Holy fuel adjustments!!! I would recommend either tuning fuel from the DA tables or the sliders, and not both. Same thing with timing. This way you only have one place you plan on adjusting and won't get confused. So if it was me, I'd zero out the fuel and timing sliders and just work from the DA tables as they're much better. Then take a new idle log and post it up.

Your TPS needs adjusted.
v3tpsadj [ECMTuning - wiki]

Your idle seems to be averaging lower than your target idle, so you may need to play with the BISS screw a bit to get it to where you want it.

I would also follow DJ's advice and redo/recheck the MAF Comp sliders.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Just to pitch in additional confirmation on the above, after using the DA Tables for Fuel / Timing adjustments I'll never use the sliders again, much better.

 

[Calan]

Something isn't adding up.

Assuming 650cc injectors at 42psi and pump gas, you are around 5% richer than ideal on global fuel. You are also adding 25% fuel with the sliders, and an additional 8.6% with MAF Comp. Even with all of this added fuel, you're WB is still showing lean; in fact, it (and AFRatioEst) seem to go more lean the longer you idle even though you are in closed-loop, while CombinedFT goes in the opposite direction. (It looks like your front O2 sensor is a bit erratic as well).

Are you using the ECMLink GM MAF cable, or a translator?

Assuming your MAF type setting is correct, this looks suspiciously like you're flowing fuel past the o-ring on the fuel pump outlet and right back into the tank. You may want to pull your return line and actually measure your fuel flow.

BTW - Do you notice any frequent misfires?

 

[Chicken Patty]

An exhaust leak before the sensors will also produce "lean" mixtures. Has the OP checked for this? Talongirl, wanna chime in on this?

 

[Calan]

An exhaust leak before the sensors will also produce "lean" mixtures.

True story, but that is a pretty big leak(s) based on the amount of fuel she is adding.

 

[Chicken Patty]

True story, but that is a pretty big leak(s) based on the amount of fuel she is adding.

Should definitely be very audible.

Perhaps improper location upon installation of sensor? But the ESTAFR is also going lean according to the log right? (posting from phone, can't see till I'm home from work)

 

[95talongirl]

Something isn't adding up.

Assuming 650cc injectors at 42psi and pump gas, you are around 5% richer than ideal on global fuel. You are also adding 25% fuel with the sliders, and an additional 8.6% with MAF Comp. Even with all of this added fuel, you're WB is still showing lean; in fact, it (and AFRatioEst) seem to go more lean the longer you idle even though you are in closed-loop, while CombinedFT goes in the opposite direction. (It looks like your front O2 sensor is a bit erratic as well).

Are you using the ECMLink GM MAF cable, or a translator?

Assuming your MAF type setting is correct, this looks suspiciously like you're flowing fuel past the o-ring on the fuel pump outlet and right back into the tank. You may want to pull your return line and actually measure your fuel flow.

BTW - Do you notice any frequent misfires?

It is running off an open downpipe right now. As far as exhaust leaks go.. didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. No audible "ticking" type noise form around the exhaust manifold and the gaskets look clean. Then again, it really hasn't been running much since the initial startup.

The settings in this "tune" were done by someone else, so I cannot speak for why he chose to use both the sliders and the DA tables. I didn't trust myself enough to attempt this. Do you think I should start over from scratch on the stock tables (with the corrections for the injectors and the MAF) and see what happens?

No translator for the MAF, I bought the cable form ECUtuning so that it can be controlled through the computer.

It seems to run pretty smooth, which is kinda odd?

Oh and the WB sensor is in the downpipe. ~32" from the turbo, as per the instructions.

And I'll check that return line!

 

[Calan]

It is running off an open downpipe right now.

Oh and the WB sensor is in the downpipe. ~32" from the turbo, as per the instructions.

Close to the end of the open pipe?

If so, that's probably causing issues due to reversion in the exhaust (fresh air being sucked back into the short exhaust and WB sensor, in between exhaust pulses). The effect would be much more noticable during low RPMs such as idling.

 

[snowborder714]

Craig, you should have known she was running a cable since the GM MAF was selected and not stock Good thing you covered the exhaust issue though as it saves me some typing.


I'd be good for you to get familiar with the software, especially since it's not really hard to get a decent tune by yourself. I'd start with these videos, as they'll teach you the basics to get the car setup.
ECMTuning, Inc.

If it was me, I would start over, at least in relation to fuel and timing. I would start with one of the Evo 8 tables (either stock or mod1) for both fuel and timing, and then zero out the sliders.
evo8v3settings [ECMTuning - wiki]

I would then redo idle and cruise settings using the MAFComp wizard.
v3mafadjcombft [ECMTuning - wiki]

If the car still doesn't run well, you can always revert back to these settings by just recopying them all to the ECU.



If you'd like, I can make the changes I'm suggesting and post a few files for you that way all you have to do is open them and save them to the ECU. Then when you get them loaded and grab an idle log or two, you can post them for some feedback and suggestions.

 

[95talongirl]

Close to the end of the open pipe?

If so, that's probably causing issues due to reversion in the exhaust (fresh air being sucked back into the short exhaust and WB sensor, in between exhaust pulses). The effect would be much more noticable during low RPMs such as idling.

Its about mid-way. It's one of those downpipes that delete the converter; so it's a bit longer. You think that still could effect it?

 

[95talongirl]

Craig, you should have known she was running a cable since the GM MAF was selected and not stock Good thing you covered the exhaust issue though as it saves me some typing.


I'd be good for you to get familiar with the software, especially since it's not really hard to get a decent tune by yourself. I'd start with these videos, as they'll teach you the basics to get the car setup.
ECMTuning, Inc.

If it was me, I would start over, at least in relation to fuel and timing. I would start with one of the Evo 8 tables (either stock or mod1) for both fuel and timing, and then zero out the sliders.
evo8v3settings [ECMTuning - wiki]

I would then redo idle and cruise settings using the MAFComp wizard.
v3mafadjcombft [ECMTuning - wiki]

If the car still doesn't run well, you can always revert back to these settings by just recopying them all to the ECU.



If you'd like, I can make the changes I'm suggesting and post a few files for you that way all you have to do is open them and save them to the ECU. Then when you get them loaded and grab an idle log or two, you can post them for some feedback and suggestions.

Thanks! Yea, that would be cool!

Still going to watch the vids and such too since I'd like to learn more about the tuning end! I greatly appreciate it!

 

[Calan]

Craig, you should have known she was running a cable since the GM MAF was selected and not stock

And you realize that is why I asked... right?

 

[snowborder714]

So you have a combination of the stock and mod1 Evo tables in, leaning more towards the mod1. So we'll leave the tables alone for now, as they should be just fine.

Then I just zerod out the timing and fuel sliders, as well as adjusted your knock CEL to 2* (instead of the 5* it used to be). So you'll just want to open up the file and click on "Copy all to ECU".

Then do the TPS adjust and MAFComp wizards mentioned above, and anything else that you may pick up from the videos.



Maybe I don't under why you asked. I never experimented when I had my GM MAF, but would it even run if you selected the wrong input?