New Fidanza 3.2 and Flywheel, WON'T disengage!

[tsi1991awd]

I bought a Fidanza 3.2 clutch and Fidanza flywheel for my 6 bolt AWD. Shop just put it in today and got everything together, and the clutch WON'T release. They shimmed the pivot ball, adjusted the master cylinder, did something to extend the master cylinder pushrod, adjusted the pedal, adjusted everything. The owner has been doing DSMs since 1995, so I know he knows his shit. Well respected shop and I have only heard good things about them. (The shop is Pina Motorsports in Kent, WA)

He says he believes it is the FIDANZA FLYWHEEL being too shallow...meaning it's not within spec. So now he has to take it all back apart and charge me another $500 to put the resurfaced stock one in and see if that takes care of the problem. What a bi***....anyone had this problem before??? What do you think it could be...before I go taking the Fidanza out and putting the stock back in??

 

[BoredOutaMyMind]

Well it sounds like its either an install error or one of your parts failing. I would suspect the flywheel to be last on my list of causes.

Did you use the TOB they provided with the kit? There is a big debate on how companies will say that the TOB they include in the kit is OEM, but infact its not. However, I doubt that unless it was damaged in some way, that it would prevent your clutch from disengaging. Hopefully he greased it before he put it in. I would order an OEM one if you are taking out the clutch again. (maybe sneak in a rear main seal too)

I dont think I've heard of anyone extending the master cyl rod, but some people do try to extend the slave, RRE has some good info on clutches that you might want to check out RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info There is some good stuff at the end of the article.

The only other thing I could think of is a leak from the master cylinder to the slave, air trapped in the system, or a blown master/slave cylinder.

I would really try looking at those first before giving someone 500 bucks to do the job. You could buy the tools to do it yourself and still have some left over, all while learning a bit about your car, thats what I did Hope this helps, let us know what happens.

 

[rbwtrans]

several things that I know of will cause this. Clutch disc in backwards, loose pressure plate bolts, loose or missing bellhousing bolts, crankwalk, over-extended master cylinder rod, wear in clutch pedal assembly, bad master cylinder, bad slave cylinder. Point is, if you're going to pay them to do it again, be standing there when the tranny comes back out. Maybe have someone there with you that knows what they are looking at.

 

[tsi1991awd]

The master and slave are like 2 weeks old, I just changed them out. He said he checked for leaks and didn't find any...I know there are none because I checked them myself as well before I brought the car up there.

The TOB is a brand new OEM one. The clutch came with I believe a Nachi, but I ordered an OEM one that came in a sealed OEM box. I inspected it and everything was fine.

I was thinking the clutch disc could be in backwards, but wouldn't it have a hard time bolting up if that were the case? It would hit the flywheel and grind wouldn't it?

 

[BoredOutaMyMind]

The master and slave are like 2 weeks old, I just changed them out. He said he checked for leaks and didn't find any...I know there are none because I checked them myself as well before I brought the car up there.

The TOB is a brand new OEM one. The clutch came with I believe a Nachi, but I ordered an OEM one that came in a sealed OEM box. I inspected it and everything was fine.

I was thinking the clutch disc could be in backwards, but wouldn't it have a hard time bolting up if that were the case? It would hit the flywheel and grind wouldn't it?

nope, happens all the time, the clutch will just feel very stiff and will sometimes work just fine.... until the pressure pushes the springs thru the disk and then you will hear it . I would definately want to see the clutch when it came out, he might be paying YOU for a new clutch

 

[2point3Tsi]

You can't really put the disc in backwards the springs would obviously hit the flywheel. I had the same battles with disengagement issues, ending up having to use a new clutch fork and pivot ball plus shimming gave me perfect disengagement. I know mines a 2g so I'm sure there are differences from yours. I've had good advice from Andre I'm just surprised he has no ideas for yours[he recommend the ACT setup for me, works great except I believe my throwout from them is crap so I have an OEM one which I'm about to install].

I would suggest a new fork and pivot ball, if those are new all you can do is check specs for flywheel thickness when you drop it. Either way that tranny is coming back out it sounds like. good luck!

 

[tsi1991awd]

Hey man if you've dealt with Andre, you know he knows his shit. I bought ALL NEW parts. Everything is brand new. OEM TOB, OEM Clutch Fork, OEM Pivot Ball, OEM TOB Clip, OEM flywheel bolts....I mean everything is brand new still in the OEM packaging and everything.

He shimmed the pivot ball, he added the extra nut onto the C-clip for the master, he adjusted everything out and it still won't disengage. He said he can't put it into gear when the car is running, it will just grind. With the car off, he can put it into gear and when he starts the car it will drag. Which is a given since it's still engaged.

There's really only two things that could have happened...either the disc was installed backwards or the BRAND NEW Fidanza flywheel that was sent to me is garbage. I really don't want to run the stock flywheel, but he had it resurfaced on Friday and he says he's almost 100% positive that the flywheel is the problem. The fork moves right, everything is spot on, it's just not disengaging. There's too much travel.

I doubt he installed the disc backwards, but I guess it is possible that he did. I want to go up there when they pull the tranny and see what's going on with it. And then if that's all good then I guess I'll compare the stock flywheel and the Fidanza and see what's up there. If the Fidanza is in spec then I have no clue what's up.

 

[rbwtrans]

I wasn't trying to knock anybody's talents. I don't know Andre. I do, however know these systems. If the fork is traveling too far, then back it off at the master cylinder rod. If there is too much travel, then then pressure plate fingers will grab at the disc. Also, an over extended rod will keep the master cylinder from returning correctly, not allowing it to recieve more fluid from the res.

Just some more food for thought. My roommate (another DSMer) has said something about the step height on the Fidanza's needing to be cut another .005 - .007, I've installed about 6 of them with no problems, but anyway, something else for you to check.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I wasn't trying to knock anybody's talents. I don't know Andre. I do, however know these systems. If the fork is traveling too far, then back it off at the master cylinder rod. If there is too much travel, then then pressure plate fingers will grab at the disc. Also, an over extended rod will keep the master cylinder from returning correctly, not allowing it to recieve more fluid from the res.

Just some more food for thought. My roommate (another DSMer) has said something about the step height on the Fidanza's needing to be cut another .005 - .007, I've installed about 6 of them with no problems, but anyway, something else for you to check.

If there is too much travel at the fork, if the pedal is all the way to the floor, couldn't I slowly lift the pedal off of the floor while trying to put it in gear and somewhere along the way it should go into gear?? That's what you think the problem is?

How would the Fidanza be cut down? There's nothing to resurface, except for the steps. If the flywheel were too shallow (meaning below spec) then I could see where the problem is....but having it have too much flywheel, I don't know. I guess the only way to find out is to be there first thing Monday when they take it apart and run the flywheel up to the shop and have the step height checked. IF the step height is correct, then what???

 

[BoredOutaMyMind]

If there is too much travel at the fork, if the pedal is all the way to the floor, couldn't I slowly lift the pedal off of the floor while trying to put it in gear and somewhere along the way it should go into gear?? That's what you think the problem is?

How would the Fidanza be cut down? There's nothing to resurface, except for the steps. If the flywheel were too shallow (meaning below spec) then I could see where the problem is....but having it have too much flywheel, I don't know. I guess the only way to find out is to be there first thing Monday when they take it apart and run the flywheel up to the shop and have the step height checked. IF the step height is correct, then what???

If i recall correctly you cant resurface a fidanza flywheel, you have to buy the replacement surface for it. It seems messed up that you have to pay another 500 if the flywheel turns out to be in spec.

 

[Demon33]

Have you tried bleeding the slave cylinder? Any air trapped in the line will decrease the amount of travel at the throwout bearing possibly resulting in the inability of the clutch to disengage from the flywheel.

FYI, I measured the step height of my Fidanza aluminum flywheel with new friction surface and it's right at 0.610" all the way around. Since these units are CNC machined, I would not expect yours to be out of spec unless it was modified in some way, but still it is possible to be out of spec but probably not very likely. I would look at other possible causes before shelling out $500 only to find that the flywheel is withing spec.

Anyone know if it's possible to install the throwout bearing backwards on the clutch fork and still be able to install the trans and bell housing??

 

[tsi1991awd]

Well here's the thing...after trying everything else from adjustments, etc. and it not working then something is up with the install. Whether it's the flywheel or not, something installed backwards....whatever the case, I'm almost certain the tranny has to come out anyways. As I previously stated, the cost isn't my concern right now I don't know why everyone is going on about the cost. My concern is if anyone has any ideas as to what it could be. If the flywheel is in spec, then obviously it's an install error. There are numerous possibilities I guess and I just don't know....I would hate to have it be the flywheel, I've read numerous posts about the Fidanza's being good flywheels. But there is always a few out of the batch that will be bad...that goes for ANY product.


Also, I know the friction disc isn't supposed to be resurfaced on these, but is a few thousandths of an inch really going to hurt it any? Just a thought.

 

[tsi1991awd]

So here's the deal. They took the transmission off and unbolted everything. Measured the flywheel and it was .605!! They also said the pressure plate looked like it was binding, so they called Fidanza and told them the situation and Fidanza told them to send the pressure plate, disc and flywheel in and they will inspect everything and send new ones to the shop.

So I'm having $80 put on my bill because I want them to send it 2nd day. It'll be there Wednesday and then hopefully by Friday they will send new ones. Then I am assuming by next Wednesday the shop will have the new parts in. Then another day or whatever to put everything in, assuming everything is within spec.

So as said, if the flywheel is too high, it will not disengage and the pressure plate fingers will contact the spring area...which is exactly what ####ing happened. Son of a bi*** Fidanza! Lol

 

[shredwin]

Im gonna be gettin rid of my Fidanza flywheel soon, my engine revs a lot faster with it but I dont like the disengagement too much.... I'll probably put my stock one back on and get an ACT one later on down the road

 

[tsi1991awd]

Whats wrong with the disengagement for you?

 

[shredwin]

Whats wrong with the disengagement for you?

sometimes its hard to put in gear... but it could be a lot of things, the cluth, tranny fluid, syncros, or something dumb.... the only reason I want the ACT one is because its a little heavier than the Fidanza one, I dont want a super light ass flywheel. and somebody offer me a comple 6 bolt motor for my Fidanza flywheel, so yeah thats the main reason its going

 

[tsi1991awd]

sometimes its hard to put in gear... but it could be a lot of things, the cluth, tranny fluid, syncros, or something dumb.... the only reason I want the ACT one is because its a little heavier than the Fidanza one, I dont want a super light ass flywheel. and somebody offer me a comple 6 bolt motor for my Fidanza flywheel, so yeah thats the main reason its going

WTF, who would trade a 6 bolt motor for a flywheel? That's insane.

 

[PIMking]

I love my Fidanza flywheel, I just got rid of my ACT clutch (oh another act failure)

I got the same clutch as you but I havent installed it yet waiting on parts from DSMgraveyard, After they sent me the wrong ones and yet waiting another week for the other parts.... Not to happy.

 

[shredwin]

WTF, who would trade a 6 bolt motor for a flywheel? That's insane.

haha yeah... im not too worried about it cause my goal is to fully build a 6bolt motor... and all I gotta do is give my friend the flywheel for the comple 6 bolt.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I called Fidanza yesterday and talked with a guy name Aaron that the guy at the shop talked to. I was asking what all Andre (mechanic) was saying was wrong. He mentioned Andre said the splines on the clutch disc were too tight and that he had to pretty much force it on. Is this normal, for the splines to be tight?? What could be up with that? I would think this could cause a disengagement issue as well, couldn't it?

 

[Bluesideup]

So what was the fix on your clutch problem?