New alternators keep going bad

[DanaJensen2013a]

SO... for the third alternator i've put in, its doing the same thing as the rest.

when I initially put in my new alt yesterday, it worked fine (14.1 on the Battery)
and didnt squeel. then i got on the freeway and it started squeeling super bad.

when i got back home i checked the Voltage on the battery and it was at 11.9 on idle.

so i'm guessing the squeeling started when the alternator went out.

Here are my questions..

1. what keeps making my alternator go out?
----i dont have a whole bunch of electronics just a stereo, amp and sub
2. could it be a fuse or a relay?

and yes i am buying cheap reman. alts. from oreilys but they should last for more than an hour...

Let me know, im 17 and skipped school today because i dont want my car to die on the freeway again and i dont want to take it to a shop.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Squealing of the belt can be too tight or too loose.Blowing through alts tho seems like the alts are getting warped by heat.But how many of us run no heat shield between o2 and the alternator (probably alot) and ours are doing just fine.

 

[kchaazz]

A few questions.

1.Were the alternators youve been replacing actually tested to verify that they are bad? Youre not leaking power steering fluid onto your alternator, are you? This will kill them quite quickly, and if youre leaking powersteering fluid from the large banjo fitting on the top of the pump, you need to go to a dealership and purchase the orings to fix this before doing anything else.

2.As Bud stated above, a loose belt will squeal, and if its squealing, its slipping on the pulley rather than doing its job turning the alternator, and your voltage will drop. Do you have a good belt installed? Also, when setting the tension on this belt, you should just tighten it and then grab the belt, between the crank pulley and alternator pulley and using your thumb and forefinger you should just be able to twist the belt 90 degrees with little effort. If you can twist it more than this, its too loose.

3. How's the harmonic balancer looking? (This is the pulley on the crankshaft) This pulley is actually two pieces, and if the rubber portion that is between the two steel parts is failing, the pulley will begin to come apart, sometimes this happens very slowly, and the outer portion will be just slightly off center and you will have issues with belt tension and the bearing in the alternator pulley will go bad.

 

[DanaJensen2013a]

A few questions.

1.Were the alternators youve been replacing actually tested to verify that they are bad? Youre not leaking power steering fluid onto your alternator, are you? This will kill them quite quickly, and if youre leaking powersteering fluid from the large banjo fitting on the top of the pump, you need to go to a dealership and purchase the orings to fix this before doing anything else.

2.As Bud stated above, a loose belt will squeal, and if its squealing, its slipping on the pulley rather than doing its job turning the alternator, and your voltage will drop. Do you have a good belt installed? Also, when setting the tension on this belt, you should just tighten it and then grab the belt, between the crank pulley and alternator pulley and using your thumb and forefinger you should just be able to twist the belt 90 degrees with little effort. If you can twist it more than this, its too loose.

3. How's the harmonic balancer looking? (This is the pulley on the crankshaft) This pulley is actually two pieces, and if the rubber portion that is between the two steel parts is failing, the pulley will begin to come apart, sometimes this happens very slowly, and the outer portion will be just slightly off center and you will have issues with belt tension and the bearing in the alternator pulley will go bad.

1. Yes. i took my alternator out and took them to oreillys and failed all 3 tests. and i took all my power steering fluid out because i dont use it anyways.

2. i just bought a new belt, i knew about the 90 degrees thing and it is tight enough.

3. i'm going to go look at the HB in a little bit. the tech at oreilys said my last alternator had a bad bearing so that might be it.. but i hope not.. i heard those are a B***** to get off. is that true?

Squealing of the belt can be too tight or too loose.Blowing through alts tho seems like the alts are getting warped by heat.But how many of us run no heat shield between o2 and the alternator (probably alot) and ours are doing just fine.

but why would that make an alt. go out so fast? my temp stays right in teh middle, no overheating

 

[kchaazz]

Harmonic balancer is not too difficult to get off, just have to have the car in gear and the ebrake on to help prevent the motor from rotating when youre breaking the four bolts loose- leaving the alt belt on while breaking the bolts loose also helps, just remove the belts before removing the bolts.
Bad alt bearing can also be caused by the belt being too tight as well, and also the parts store remans arent that great and have a reasonably high failure rate compared to OEM. If youre mechanically inclined, you can purchase a rebuild kit from Mitsubishi for less than the price of a questionable, parts store remanned unit and build it yourself.
Another thing many overlook is that the alternator belt in these cars is rather finicky to begin with and you must take care when setting the tension- its not only about whether or not the belt is tight enough. The following is the method I use and have no trouble with:
After putting the belt onto the pulleys and pulling the alternator forward to hold the belt in place- which is easy because youve still got the bolt thats holding the alternator to the motor loose at this point, you want to go ahead and loosen the bolt that holds the curved tensioner bracket to the water pump just enough so that the bracket can be moved with moderate pressure. Next I like to have the bolt that holds the little threaded block to the curved bracket just loose enough so the block can pivot on its bolt a bit as you tighten the tensioner bolt. Once youve got the belt tension set, then tighten the bolt to the threaded block, tighten the bolt holding the bracket to the water pump, then the long bolt that holds the alt to the engine. If youve never tried it this way, check it out, it works nicely.

 

[DanaJensen2013a]

Harmonic balancer is not too difficult to get off, just have to have the car in gear and the ebrake on to help prevent the motor from rotating when youre breaking the four bolts loose- leaving the alt belt on while breaking the bolts loose also helps, just remove the belts before removing the bolts.
Bad alt bearing can also be caused by the belt being too tight as well, and also the parts store remans arent that great and have a reasonably high failure rate compared to OEM. If youre mechanically inclined, you can purchase a rebuild kit from Mitsubishi for less than the price of a questionable, parts store remanned unit and build it yourself.
Another thing many overlook is that the alternator belt in these cars is rather finicky to begin with and you must take care when setting the tension- its not only about whether or not the belt is tight enough. The following is the method I use and have no trouble with:
After putting the belt onto the pulleys and pulling the alternator forward to hold the belt in place- which is easy because youve still got the bolt thats holding the alternator to the motor loose at this point, you want to go ahead and loosen the bolt that holds the curved tensioner bracket to the water pump just enough so that the bracket can be moved with moderate pressure. Next I like to have the bolt that holds the little threaded block to the curved bracket just loose enough so the block can pivot on its bolt a bit as you tighten the tensioner bolt. Once youve got the belt tension set, then tighten the bolt to the threaded block, tighten the bolt holding the bracket to the water pump, then the long bolt that holds the alt to the engine. If youve never tried it this way, check it out, it works nicely.

here's a pic of the HB. doesnt look too bad IMO but i'm not that inclined.

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i think i'm gonna drive to oreilys and have them look at it because he said he would do it for free yesterday.

i think i might have over tightened it yesterday because there's some belt dust on the alt. so i just loosened it a bit. and i have a warranty on the alt so getting a new one wont be a problem but i want to fix what made this one go bad before i ruin another one..

 

[kchaazz]

I see quite a bit of cracking around the rubber on that. Take the upper timing cover off so you can see the cams, put it in neutral, and turn the motor CLOCKWISE only, using a half inch drive ratchet with an extension in the square hole in the bolt on the crank until the marks on the cam sprockets are lined up with the dowel pins pointing up. Now, look at the mark on the lower timing cover that has the "T" on it, and the notch on the harmonic balancer should be lined up with this "T". If it is not, then the balancer is likely coming apart. Also, belt dust from a new or otherwise good belt is indicative of a slipping belt which isnt quite tight enough, which is counterintuitive if youre wrecking the bearing in the alternator...

Edit: Also, if the HB is indeed bad, do not get one from the parts store, they come apart in a matter of weeks.

 

[DanaJensen2013a]

I see quite a bit of cracking around the rubber on that. Take the upper timing cover off so you can see the cams, put it in neutral, and turn the motor CLOCKWISE only, using a half inch drive ratchet with an extension in the square hole in the bolt on the crank until the marks on the cam sprockets are lined up with the dowel pins pointing up. Now, look at the mark on the lower timing cover that has the "T" on it, and the notch on the harmonic balancer should be lined up with this "T". If it is not, then the balancer is likely coming apart. Also, belt dust from a new or otherwise good belt is indicative of a slipping belt which isnt quite tight enough, which is counterintuitive if youre wrecking the bearing in the alternator...

Edit: Also, if the HB is indeed bad, do not get one from the parts store, they come apart in a matter of weeks.

well, the Timing is good. and i noticed that the side closest to the engine of the belt is getting worn off so maybe its rubbing on something? but i think i over tightened the belt and ruined the POS bearing in the alt..

Ok so, i put everything back together and started my car and my alternator started to work.. my battery was full at 13.5 and when i started it, it jumped up to 14.1

there was no squeeling at first so i took it for a test drive. right when i get on the road, the squeeling comes back so i drive it back home and check the alternator. and NOW the battery is at 12.8 while the car is idling...

WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON???

could it be the relay, or a short?

 

[kchaazz]

If its squealing again, the belt is slipping and not turning the alternator fast enough to charge. Also, the output of the alt will drop some naturally as it warms up and as voltage stabilizes, though it really should be in the 13.xx area. If the belt has slipped long enough, or been stretched from overtightening, just replace it. Ive had good luck with Gates, Goodyear and Dayco belts, I wouldnt run any of the other brands. Also, if youve got that powersteering pump empty of its fluid and still have the belt that runs the powersteering pump on, there is a good chance that the pump is getting ready to seize up and is creating so much resistance on the alt belt that the belt is slipping. If that's the case, try and just cut the belt off the powersteering pump and see if its pulley turns freely.

 

[DanaJensen2013a]

If its squealing again, the belt is slipping and not turning the alternator fast enough to charge. Also, the output of the alt will drop some naturally as it warms up and as voltage stabilizes, though it really should be in the 13.xx area. If the belt has slipped long enough, or been stretched from overtightening, just replace it. Ive had good luck with Gates, Goodyear and Dayco belts, I wouldnt run any of the other brands. Also, if youve got that powersteering pump empty of its fluid and still have the belt that runs the powersteering pump on, there is a good chance that the pump is getting ready to seize up and is creating so much resistance on the alt belt that the belt is slipping. If that's the case, try and just cut the belt off the powersteering pump and see if its pulley turns freely.

i appreciate all your help kchaazz. you have no idea! i even referenced you for more reputation points

but here's what i found out after the squeeling.. the bolt that you use to tighten the alternator, that's like 3 inches long, closest to the front of the car, popped out of the little spot its suppose to be in, which would make the belt loose causing it to not spin fast enough, and causing it to squeel... correct?

 

[thomcasey]

If you are getting alternators from Autozone, O'Reilly's, etc..., they will fail. They are more susceptible to heat. Get a NEW alternator (bosch) and make sure your exhaust heat shields are in place (or wrap your downpipe in heat wrap if you don't have the shields), this will protect the voltage regulator inside from melting.

Also, make sure you get an alternator for an automatic (75amp) at a MINIMUM, the GVR4 alternator (90amp) are the best to get

 

[kchaazz]

Yup, that bolt popping out of the bracket will cause the belt to come loose. The trick is putting your finger on it to hold it all the way down in the bracket when setting the tension and continue holding the bolt in when you tighten the threaded block, then tighten the bracket to waterpump bolt, then the bolt that holds the alt to the engine, in exactly that order. Dont feel bad, years ago, I actually had the block and the tensioner bolt come flying off when I was driving cause the bolt that holds the block actually just snapped off...

 

[DSM1G90]

and yes i am buying cheap reman. alts. from oreilys ...

Kinda the right answer here .. about as bad as AutoCrapZone's.

Try an actual alternator shop to get your remans from .. they hold up better. Got one from my local alt shop 5yrs ago and still running strong.

 

[STLskater92]

Have you even checked any relays or fuses??? I got a 16g 1st gen for 800 bucks because the dude couldnt figure out that the alternator relay was bad!!! So replace those if you haven't already.

 

[DropSomeMoney]

Alternators hate heat! Your slipping belt is heating up the alternator which is transferring the heat through the rotor to the backside rotor bearing which will transfer the heat from there to the back casing which is where your diode plate and regulator sit on. They have heat transfer grease which keeps them cool. Since it is remanufactured it has most likely been sitting on the shelf for a while and the transfer grease has started to dry up. Support your local rebuilder. And if not at least check for a remanufactured date.

I miss spoke. Diode plates do not have transfer grease. Just the regulator. But your heat is killing your alternator.

 

[MJBean420]

I got a Denso a couple of years ago from Auto Parts Tomorrow | ACDelco, Bendix Brakes, Denso, Motorcraft and more for around $120 with free overnight shipping. I got the 90amp Galant version. Fit like a glove, just 90 amps instead of 75. No problems yet.

It sounds like you may need a new alternator belt and tighten it up.

 

[luv2rallye]

1. what keeps making my alternator go out?

A power steering pump that leaks oil onto the alt below it will kill any alt very quickly - so check it.

 

[DanaJensen2013a]

so i had the problem fixed for a day but last night it started squeeling so i went to tighten it and i thought i had it perfect but the belt felt hot and soft, like melting almost, ya know? so i started my car and it snapped.

i've figured out my initial problem, so thats solved. now i just want to know..

What is the best brand of serpentine belt to get?

 

[Wooley91TSI]

so i had the problem fixed for a day but last night it started squeeling so i went to tighten it and i thought i had it perfect but the belt felt hot and soft, like melting almost, ya know? so i started my car and it snapped.

i've figured out my initial problem, so thats solved. now i just want to know..

What is the best brand of serpentine belt to get?

OEM or Gates are always my go-to's for belts.

 

[gusu]

I hate to ask. But are they soaked in oil when they die?

 

[DanaJensen2013a]

I hate to ask. But are they soaked in oil when they die?

no my PS pump and its reservoir are empty. i dont use them. and i found out the last alt didnt go bad, the tensioner bolt keeps popping out of the bracket, coming lose, and the belt isnt spinning fast enough and it starts to squeel.

i got in a fender bender in september and it took out my power steering and leeked fluid all over my original Alt. now im stuck with these POS remanufactured ones from oreily..

 

[luv2rallye]

All auto stores reman's are pos. Only get one at a alt/starter repair shop (reman or new). A washer under the tensioner bolt head helps to keep it in place: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144444&d=1346305878

 

[DSM1G90]

Ya, did the washer trick with mine to make it easier to spin with the 1/4" socket wrench.