National DSM Time Attack event - would you show up?

[DSMunknown]

What about just having the Tuners shootout. Evotuners, wrxtuners, dsmtuners and then you could have overall and class champions. Would probably guarantee a much much higher turnout ratio.

If I am not mistaken, there is a larger community at EvolutionM and NASIOC.

 

[jtmcinder]

NASIOC is huge, but it's 50% hangout and I'm still having a heck of time explaining to them how their own center diff works.

- Jtoby

 

[underradar92]

Well, I'm in the same boat. I would have to borrow a truck and rent a trailer as of right now. Many of us are in the same situation, needing a truck/trailer. I'd say that we could all rent/borrow/buy something by the time the event comes around. .

Of course all bets are on if the "central location" happens to be Road America, which gets my vote anyway. Hey what a great idea!

 

[Ludachris]

If I am not mistaken, there is a larger community at EvolutionM and NASIOC.

They'd be invited too - it would be a community thing, not just a site thing. Hopefully they're not too stuck on the "our site vs. their site" thing. Lots of noise vs signal going on on those larger sites anyway. I'm sure we could get the serious folks interested.

 

[hairybeanbag]

The National Toyota meet was last year in Topika Kansas, Hartland park has everthing for a good event. They have drag strip, 2.3 mile roadcorse and a huge lots for Autocross setup. It's vary fair driving distance for east cost and west cost members. I don't think Mitsubishi will help sponsor our event like Toyota did for North America 2005 event.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Of course all bets are on if the "central location" happens to be Road America, which gets my vote anyway. Hey what a great idea!

I'll second the vote for road america.

 

[Ludachris]

I'll second the vote for road america.

We're not deciding on the track or location right now. What we're really trying to nail down is how many people would show up to a national event that was somewhat centrally located for all DSMers. Please guys, help give us some feedback on the original question, we only have 16 votes so far. Let's not start spitting out recommendations for tracks.

Come on people! This would be a national DSM event that would hopefully grow to be as big as the Shootout some day! Let's see some damn passion and enthusiasm for our cars, our community, and road racing! Show me that we'd have at least 20-30 cars that would show up to this event. Please, give me a little faith. Show me there's something to be excited about in our community! Please.

 

[underradar92]

Believe me, if I can divert some funds from my car to a 100,000+ mile diesel pickup and used, open trailer I'll be all over that shootout like a bad suit. As it is I may ask a friend to donate time and truck/trailer, any way. I'm just not in a position to fully commit, yet.

 

[Ludachris]

That's understandable. And I can relate. But it just gets depressing seeing the lack of enthusiasm and passion in our community these days. If people really wanted to go, they'd find a way to go - me included. Here I am looking to go out on a limb to try and organize an event that I know will probably have limited participation and we're having a tough time just getting people excited about it.

Maybe times are just tough for everyone. I hope that's the case and not that we just don't have enough passionate DSMers that would do something like this.

 

[DSMunknown]

We're not deciding on the track or location right now. What we're really trying to nail down is how many people would show up to a national event that was somewhat centrally located for all DSMers. Please guys, help give us some feedback on the original question, we only have 16 votes so far. Let's not start spitting out recommendations for tracks.

Come on people! This would be a national DSM event that would hopefully grow to be as big as the Shootout some day! Let's see some damn passion and enthusiasm for our cars, our community, and road racing! Show me that we'd have at least 20-30 cars that would show up to this event. Please, give me a little faith. Show me there's something to be excited about in our community! Please.

I think it is difficult for most people to "get passionate" about this event without a location. It's difficult to be "gung ho" about going to an event when the location is still unclear.

 

[mavisky]

I think it's also hard to get people to commit to showing up if noone is sure where it's going to be. I know a trip to Autobahn (outside of Chicago) would be easier to make than a trip to Kansas. I'm going to do everything in my ability to show up and race, even it means driving 12 hours in the damn rattle trap there and back.

 

[Ludachris]

I think it is difficult for most people to "get passionate" about this event without a location. It's difficult to be "gung ho" about going to an event when the location is still unclear.

Not difficult for me. If I knew someone was putting out the feelers for an event like this I wouldn't care so much about how far away it is, I'd still be enthusiastic. I guess maybe I'm just a unique DSMer in that regard. I don't expect anyone to share the same level of love for cars and racing as I do. But I sure do wish there were more out there like me, especially in the DSM world. It sucks having to hang out more with owners of other cars all the time.

I was talking more about showing passion and enthusiasm in general. It seems like the typical DSMer response to something like this is "heh, yeah, that's cool I guess". I'm just trying to get people pumped up about the idea of having a national event specifically for road racing DSMers who want to have bragging rights as being the fastest in the nation. Maybe there just isn't enough of us to constitute the effort.

The location would likely be eastern Colorado, Nebraska, or Kansas - somewhere in the central US- so that the distance would be fair for everyone who wanted to participate on both the east and west coasts. I might also look into more regional events, but right now I want to see about the national event first. It would take place at a new, or almost new facility. Colorado might be slightly west than central compared to the other locations but given the possibility that the turnout would be questionable, I'd have to consider going with a track that I could leverage a relationship with in order to get a break on the rental price. If I went with a track in Kansas, I'd be taking a huge risk. And I don't know if I can depend on the DSM community to come through - it's kind of sad just saying that.

 

[Flash]

I wouldn't mind going, even to watch. We'll see how things go with my car. Just distance is my biggest excuse. I don't like to travel far.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Luda, It's a double edged sword.

The people who have a car that is very streetable and friendly for highway driving aren't the ones that are excited about road course time trials, or are somewhat intimidated by them.

The people who have cars entirely built for road course, typically don't want to drive them to the track, and have a hard time expending the funds to trailer them there as well. I see a slowly growing road course group with DSMs, and the excitement IS building. I think that it is just a slow process.

People like me, who are building thier cars from the ground up to be a comprimise between being able to drive to the track, and full out road racing whore, would love to come, and would be quite excited about seeing a bunch of DSMs racing together.

I am also probably not going to have the time/funds to drive to colorado though. Topeka (heartland) seems like a decent compromise. Good track, could get the drag racers from around there out as well.

I think 2 events (say Mid-Ohio and Aspen) one for the east/mideast, and one for the west/midwest would be next year, and then try to do those two events, and then a "national" event afterwards in 08. Trying to just pull a national event out with now prior basis for events is going to be very hard.

Even the shootout started locally, and then grew to be huge.

 

[mavisky]

The days of dsm owners with large amounts of expendable income are almost completely gone. This means that most of us are struggling to keep the car going and racing at local events. Add in large travel costs and the numbers begin to dwindle. Mid-Ohio is probably a good track with the large amount of dsm'ers in the Chicago, Detroit, Indy, Cleveland, Cincy and Pennsylvania regions.

People have tried other shootouts and the only one to even come close to the original in terms of people showing up was the east coast shootout due to location. Our member base is spread throughout the northern midwest and east coast pretty heavily along with the far west coast and the Texas/Arizona region. A track day in Cali or one in Ohio would probably bring in the highest attendance due to the amount of dsm's in those regions.

The shootout was tiny when it first started, and was held in Ohio only due to the fact that Dave's shop is mere minutes down the road. Having an event close to a large dsm/evo/subaru vendor will undoubtedly increase the amount or participants.

What are they saying on the evo/subaru forums regarding something like this? I think including them is the only way to guarantee an event like this goes off smoothly as the amount of evo/wrx guys with expendable income and the desire to hit the road courses seems to be much higher than that of dsm'ers so far. I'd predict that if we were to have an event with the three marquees you'd get 45% Subarus, 35% Evo's, and maybe 20% dsm's at best. It pains me to say that, but I think that's the reality of the situation.

 

[underradar92]

I must say that "we DSM'ers who road race" are a rapidly growing, but still tiny group. In the year or so that I've had this car, I've seen the shift from mostly drag cars and a few autocrossers & like 2 road course cars, to probably 20 regular posters who roadrace plus a ton of autocrossers. We just got our own category a few months ago. I think that is pretty enthusiastic. Those 20 or so have undoubtedly devoted a ton of research and most of their spare cash, just to prepare a platform with comparatively minimal info and aftermarket. I really appreciate your enthusiasm, Chris & share it, and think its brilliant on your part to introduce the idea of a shootout, it gives me some kind of a goal for the future. Is it too soon? maybe. Or not. Just how many participants would it take for a greenlight? It's too soon to throw in the towel on the idea yet as a lot of the other road race peep's have yet to weigh in on the idea. Slow Old Poop, one of the lead instigators in this movement, hasn't been heard from, nor has GreenGSX, I guess my point is, don't give up quite yet. Sorry if my points are sort of scattered, thats just how my head works.

 

[schemauer]

I'd suggest at least two events catering to each side of the states. I know I would not be able to trailer from WI to Colorado for example.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

The dsm road race group is not nearly large enough for a time attack event yet. Rather a better setup should be working with NASA and their HPDEs to host a track day. Time attack events are typically rediculously expensive and not enough time compared to HPDE. Look up MachV's track day that is actually going on today. They used the NASA HPDE, but got permission from NASA to have a sectioned off area for MACHV and a few other deals. I think this would be the first good step in increasing involvment. Also it means that inexperienced DSMers could also drive in HPDE 1 and 2. Plus it is relatively cheap at 310 dollars a weekend for all the time you get.

When the time attack events came out, I thought it was a blessing, but it wasnt. Its really expensive, gives little track time, and mostly just features shop cars and rich guy's cars. Sorry, but im not even interested in something like that.

 

[Greg Collier]

I see a slowly growing road course group with DSMs, and the excitement IS building. I think that it is just a slow process.

I agree totally with Greg!

When I first started talking about that I actually road raced my Laser people thought I was nuts. There was a small group of auto crossers but even they kept their endeavors under wrap. To see how the “turners” (people who actual turn the steering wheel) community has grown over time is totally exciting to me. The new names that consistently show up in this forum prove that there’s a lot of interest. Personally I think if all these people could experience one day on the track with their car they be hooked, line and sinker. It just takes time…

Hang in there Chris, it will happen and I'm behind you a 1000%!

 

[talonTSIDriver]

If this were to take place in the midwest region, I would almost surely attend an event like this. But who would host this. I help a local car club put on some auto-x events and lapping days and all the work that goes into those events and the cost. insurance and the cost to use the track can be very expensive. If someone were to set an event up like this and organize it, i would most likely come for sure.

 

[Ludachris]

The dsm road race group is not nearly large enough for a time attack event yet. Rather a better setup should be working with NASA and their HPDEs to host a track day. Time attack events are typically rediculously expensive and not enough time compared to HPDE. Look up MachV's track day that is actually going on today. They used the NASA HPDE, but got permission from NASA to have a sectioned off area for MACHV and a few other deals. I think this would be the first good step in increasing involvment. Also it means that inexperienced DSMers could also drive in HPDE 1 and 2. Plus it is relatively cheap at 310 dollars a weekend for all the time you get.

When the time attack events came out, I thought it was a blessing, but it wasnt. Its really expensive, gives little track time, and mostly just features shop cars and rich guy's cars. Sorry, but im not even interested in something like that.

This event would be hosted by us in conjunction with NASA, using their Time Trials rules and classing. Pricing for NASA Time Trials is the same as HPDE. We might have to pay slightly more per driver to have our events exclusive to DSMs but it would still likely end up being less than your average non-NASA track event.

It sounds as if I might have to consider looking into smaller local events first. I don't know how much work that would be, or if I'd even be able to do it. But I'll try. A national event wouldn't include HPDE for beginners, as it would be more like a battle of the fastest drivers. There would be bragging rights and cash and prizes - plenty of incentive for the top DSMs in the nation to come out and compete. The local events would have less incentives except for the fact that they're closer. Maybe I'll look into organizing a large national WRX/EVO event and just invite DSMers on the side.

 

[Slow old poop]

Of course all bets are on if the "central location" happens to be Road America, which gets my vote anyway. Hey what a great idea!

Well, somehow we have to pay for this. Road America rents for $10,000 per day, so we need 200 cars willing to pay $400 each for the weekend. I don't think there are 200 DSMs in the entire world running road courses.

Tracks like MidAmerica Motorplex near Omaha, Heartland Park near Topeka, or Blackhawk Farms near Chicago are much cheaper, therefore much more suitable for our little group. For example, as few as 25 cars can rent Midamerica Motorplex for $150 per day. I think that's more our speed, not some famous track like Road America, Mid-Oho or Laguna Seca tha costs billions to rent.

AMS runs track days at Autobahn near Chicago--maybe we could tag onto one of those.

Rich

 

[EvoDrifter68]

I been reading what you guys have to say about this event. I really dont think you should just limit it to DSM because the turn out wil not be very good especially a national event. I agree with maybe haveing a east and west coast event first just to see what kind of turn out you get, and then possibly putting together a east coast west coast shoot out I would love to attend a event like this but i dont think the evo wants the miles put on it. It is a great idea and i will post it on the local texas forums maybe you will get some more input from those guys as well.

 

[stealthTT]

**I'm warning you, like Underradar, my mind and writing wanders too when I'm deep in thought.**

Excellent idea to put something together. Great things have started this way. I own a Dodge Stealth and so I've dealt with the small community and a "national" event. We're even such gluttons for punishment we combine 4 events into a 4-day weekend. We do the 1/4 mile, roadracing, autocross, and a car show over 4 days. We'll often drive for 30minutes to an hour to get to the track, because the hotel has to be triangulated between the events. It's hard as h3ll to plan and concessions have to be made to accomodate all 4. Then it's hard to sell because it's not an hour drive from everyone in the country. The you take a high risk with the track fees not to mention your time. But after 2 years they were hitting 150 cars and mostly everyone that attends is happy. It's really cool to see all those other cars, compete with them, and make new friends.

I spoke with Dave Royce this weekend at Road America. He is the midwest regional director of NASA. He asked what he could do to grow participation in NASA and specifically talked about making the event more beginner friendly. Of signifigance to the topic on hand is we talked about including a group of enthusiasts (like dsmtuners or 3si) in the weekend for a special session(s). We also talked about a session where instructors would take a person for a ride-along to experience the g-forces and fun of being on track. The cars look slow and it doesn't look like a whole lot of fun from the grandstands, but whooooa-boy, you go for a ride and you get the perma-grin! I think people just need to go for a ride and get a taste. Then you need to know there is a safe place to run without selling a kidney for big power, big brakes, and great suspension. That's the biggest misnomer I hear about NASA. You don't need an ALMS car or something like Greg Collier. You can run bone stock (with brake pads, fluid, and good tires) and be fast.

But back on topic, with a piggybacked event, you could get a lot of competitors and spectators with NASA bearing the brunt of the financial commitment. So, if it were me I'd contact Dave Royce about piggybacking on somewhere because he is very interested in growing the Midwest region of NASA.

If that doesn't appeal to you, I'd rent a cheaper track like SlowOldPoop listed. Keep the entry fee low to improve interest to those guys that want to pay dragstrip prices and don't understand the justification for road racing prices. I always tell guys you can buy 1 minute of track time and adrenaline for $25 at the dragstrip, but it always seems like your disappointed that your car wasn't faster. But you can buy 100 minutes of track time for $200 and be way more satisfied with the whooping you put on 100k porches and 60k vettes. I've also never sported a perma-grin at the dragstrip. However the road course has left me riding the adrenaline and joy for days afterwards.

p.s. I'd also open it up to 3000GTs and Stealths. There's a ton of us that want a place to play as well. You might not get the numbers you're looking for if you limit it to dsms. Us guys that race 90's Mitsus gotta stick together.

 

[mavisky]

All positive points there.