National DSM Time Attack event - would you show up?

[Slow old poop]

StealthTT is Mike the Mechanic, a wannabe racer who gets his rocks off laying a tune on my Eclipse and keeping me going. He is just itching to take his beast on a road course after spending some serious wheel time at a couple of tracks in California and Nevada. (He is such a good DSM and 3000GT wrench and tuner, some rich guy flew hin out to California to fix his 3000GT, then took him road racing).

Mike is right, though. I bet you could combine DSMs and 3000GTs in an event, and double the turnout. The trick is to align this with SOMEBODY -- AMS, NASA or the 3000GT folks -- and not try to go it alone. There ain't enough of us to pull this off by ourselves.

Besides, wouldn't ti be delicious to put some serious hurt on those 3000GT boys?

Rich/ex 3000GT owner/racer

 

[Greg Collier]

I know Royce would do it in a heart beat. The guy is hungry to get the Mid-West moving in all directions. Even though he's a California boy at heart...

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

come straight to the east coast baby! VIR or Summit Point. We'll be there with bells on and do what ever we need to do to make sure it's paid for!

 

[Greg Collier]

VIR would be awesome... hell that's worth the tow!

 

[RonJeremY]

I voted Maybe for a few reasons.

Cost: I am going to my first track day this friday at PIR (Portland not Pacific) with CSCC (Cascade Sports Car Club) for their HPDE/driver training for first timers. I have wanted to track for years, just couldn't afford it. I can barely justify spending $129 for a track day, let alone $400 for less seat time. I think as others have said, not many DSM drivers with lotsa cash... Unless they know where to get free transmissions!

Experience: I would be interested in a track day only, not a timed competition for at least a season or two. After I have some decent skills, and more $$$, then, hell yeas!

Distance: I love to drive. My wife and I drove to Alabama (her "not so sweet" home) and back in our recently sold 97 Eclipse Spyder with the top down the whole way except a snowstorm in Wy on the way back. I could justify taking the time off work to see her family for the first time in 8 years, but maybe not so much for an expensive racing weekend. I would, however, drive 1/2 way across the country to do it, as I would only need to reserve 1.5 days driving each way and we alternate 4 and 3 day weekends working at the same place. A central or western location would be key for me, if it was on the east coast, I would want to incorporate a tour of New England and take my wife's Audi (just as fast, quieter, more comfortable, and INVISIBLE to cops!) , which would rule out participating in a DSM only event.

I also agree with others that it would be more cost effective to invite other car groups and have class/brand awards. I have been rallycrossing for two years and would love to see those Subies get the smackdown they deserve. Besides, there are so many of them, they would subsidize the cost for others. The largest turnout the Oregon Rally Group has had in the last two years was about 80 cars, with at least 60 of them Subies. I am usually one of only TWO DSM's at Rally X events (unless my wife lets me drive the A6...), leaving me to assume most DSM owners (besides autoXers) prefer to drag/bench/street race more than anything else. I hope I am wrong on that!

BTW Hello everyone, my name is Brian and I am an automaholic mechanophile

 

[Slow old poop]

Ron: You may want to read through this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243338

Good luck!

Rich

 

[RonJeremY]

Thanks, fellas! Lots of good info specific to DSM's. I have read some other good info elsewhere, but nothing specific to our cars like you have here. I will let you know how it goes, the only thing I am worried about is maybe not being able to get new brakes before friday. I am flushing the whole brake and clutch system tomorrow with Pentosynth, the guys at a local VW/Audi shop recommended it for my wife's A6 and it seems to have good numbers. I don't plan on being too agressive, just trying to be smooth. Realistic, physics based PC driving sims, snow driving, and rallycross have already taught me that slower is sometimes faster and the last thing you want to do is come into a corner too hot

How low is acceptable for a set of stock brake pads for a relaxed first day? I already practice good braking, hard and short, never had brakes fade on the street on any car except the 4 wheel drums on my 63 Nova before I went front disc. I was planning on checking them first thing tomorrow when I get up (11 or so, I work nights), I think they are about 75% right now but haven't looked for 1000 miles or so.

Also, how much of my brand new (still got nipples!) BFG KDW's can I expect to sacrifice to the almighty god of physics on a track day? They last me 40kmi on the street despite spirited driving most of the time. What tire pressure do you guys reccommend? 40 psi? Or should I be like an AUtoX snob and throw some sidewalk chalk on the corner blocks? Here's all the info: 245/50ZR16 KDW treadwear 300 AA/A/A max pressure 45 psi on 16X8" 3000GT rims and 3mm spacers. The Car is bone stock suspensionwise, and otherwise except air filter, BCS restrictor removed, and a Flowmaster.

Final question, (for now are wheel spacers dangerous under track conditions? I had no choice as the tires BARELY squeaked on the front control arms without them.

Thanks again for your time and effort to help bring another wayward soul into the fold...

 

[stealthTT]

If the track doesn't have good spots where the brakes have a chance to cool, then you could wear them down very quickly. Street pads are designed for street temperatures and long cooling off periods before they're used again. You could wear through those pads in one session if you don't perform "brake management".

Tire wear is dependant on several factors: tire overheating (it will chunk off), camber/toe, aggressiveness of driving, non-abs brakes, over/under-inflation, probably more that I can't think of.

You should definately chalk the tires. I like to start on the high side and then let out some air if the chalk isn't wiped to the crown of the tire. It's easier to let out air and safer to be on the high side then the low side.

3mm spacers should be fine. I've seen people run 20mm+ spacers and not have a problem. Just make sure the lugnuts are torqued properly when cold. Don't torque hot lugnuts or you'll twist them off!

Good luck and have fun!

 

[RonJeremY]

Thanks for the tips. My brake pads are still about 1/4" thick so I think I'll be OK.

How high should I start on tire pressure? 40 psi? I run 36F33R at rallycross for insurance to keep them on bead, and run 34F32R on the street with completely even wear.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

I actually used BFG KDWs at my first track day. The compound on them is very good, they won't get greasy on you like most street tires. The problem is that they get so soft and sticky that they will start to chunk like a street tire. Start at a pretty low tire pressure, checking it often. The heat you put in the tires will increase the pressure alot. I shot for about 38 psi when fully hot, and once I let them cool all the way down at home my cold temp was only about 29 psi; that gives you an idea of how much the pressure can increase just from heat. I'd start at 35 psi or less , and check it after a few laps, bleed to 38 psi or so, then check after another 10 laps and bleed to 38 again, following all tips about pitting, etc as outlined in the link above. Remember to take it easy on your first lap to allow the tires to warm up.

 

[eclipse2via]

This is getting a bit off topic but I always bring an extra set of brake pads to every event. Be it stock or high performance street pads I do not like end my day early or not have a safe way home because of lack of pads.

 

[RonJeremY]

I just bring an extra car, or my wife does anyway

 

[Slow old poop]

Well, here's a strange idea: Why don't we set up a national championship of our own, using the NASA class and scoring system?

First, we get a bunch of vendors to put up prizes and contingency awards, such as cash and merchandise.

Next, we award points for cars competing in NASA TT classes. We run in everything from TTG for a stocker to TTU for a heavily modded car. You get a certain number of points for entering the event and more points for where you finish. Say, 1 point for entering, 10 points for a win, 5 points for 2nd, or whatever works. Any NASA event is eligible for accruing points. DSMers earning points would work toward regional championships.

Then, we cap it off by holding our national championship at the season-ending Road America NASA event (not the NASA Nationals--that's a zoo).

I am a little fuzzy on the points, qualification requireements, and the importance of the national event, but that can all be worked out. Point is, there would be an incentive for DSMers to run NASA road races locally, and there ought to be an incentive for the faster cars to come to some central location for a national runoff. Also, this don't cost us nuttin, because we don't have to rent our own track or organize anything. We let NASA do all the renting and organizing.

Rich

 

[lethal_vr4]

I bet you could combine DSMs and 3000GTs in an event, and double the turnout. The trick is to align this with SOMEBODY -- AMS, NASA or the 3000GT folks -- and not try to go it alone. There ain't enough of us to pull this off by ourselves.

Besides, wouldn't ti be delicious to put some serious hurt on those 3000GT boys?

Rich/ex 3000GT owner/racer

As Rich mentioned Mid-America Motorplex http://www.midamericamotorplex.com/2006/default.asp is cheap to rent, is centrally located, and has almost no walls to hit while being a good sized track that is pretty technical.

I would love to bring my track modified VR-4 out to a Mitsubishi national event and show Rich where he went wrong in life. I've thought about trying to organize something very similar for years for the 3/S platform. I would think we could easily get the 20 cars minimum @ $125.00 to rent MAM between just the two groups. Something along the lines of a All Mitsubishi Road Race or something snazzy like that. If it's sucessfull, we could move it around the country. I can help organize with MAM if there is interest.


If not Rich's idea of using NASA TT as a points system has merit as well.

If not I'm sure I'll be in attendance as part of Rich's crew.

Just my 2 hp

 

[Elvenhome21]

i agree wid MidAmerica or Road America (I live 10 Miles Away)
You can do it similar to MFBA (speedseekers) and just invite everyone for the first couple years to get people into it and once its well known, then slowly start restricting it to mits and evos

 

[silvah_gsx]

This is getting a bit off topic but I always bring an extra set of brake pads to every event. Be it stock or high performance street pads I do not like end my day early or not have a safe way home because of lack of pads.

Also some way to avoid losing your caliper seals on the other side of the country. That's been my nightmare ever since I started tracking my car, since its an issue with stock calipers. This kind of thing, I think, is another reason some people don't want to go too far -- you don't want your car breaking down far from home. Any non-track car (which I imagine most of us have) obviously runs a higher risk of something going wrong.

If anyone in California has access to a multi-car race trailer, do chime in

 

[Dorifto]

I don't mean to bring threads back from the dead [a defunct poll, no less], but I need to satisfy my curiosity. Is there any progress on this?

Simply put, I would drive to CO or IA for a time-attack event - in fact, I would take out a loan and get fired from a job to attend.

I plan on entering autocross and Solo-II events starting this spring, and would love to extend that to time-attack. In the future, I'd like to go so far as to work with the Rocky Mountain DSM region and Miller Motorsports Park to start up a time-attack deal.

Again, just curious as to how this is coming along, if it even is. I understand some projects take the back burner [why else has my GSX been engineless for two months ...].

 

[Slow old poop]

I don't mean to bring threads back from the dead [a defunct poll, no less], but I need to satisfy my curiosity. Is there any progress on this?
...].

Here is my recommendation:

About four times a year, findtheline.com hosts a one-day event at Midamerica Motorplex (MAM) near Omaha. No events are posted for 2007 yet, but they should go up one of these days. Typically, it's $125 or so for the day, on a Saturday, and the event usually draws about 40 cars. Right next door to MAM is a 1/8 mile dragstrip, just in case somebody wanted to go play.

MAM is a reasonable driving distance from almost anywhere in the Midwest (Chicago, Minpls, Mliwaukee, St Louis, KC, etc.), Colorado and so on. In fact, the organizers of findtheline are based in Mnpls.

Why don't we pick a date (when they get posted) and hold the next meeting of the Time-Attack Organizing Club and Drinking Society at MAM? We can make up our own rules as we go.

In other words, we don't gotta do nuttin official except show up, run, drink lots of beer and visit with each other.

findtheline.com will organize its event, and we'll just tag along with ours.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

Not a bad idea Rich. I know that the Tiburon community leeches onto a competition called the triple tuner challenge that takes place at Mid-Ohio for their yearly gathering even though it's open to a bunch of other makes and models.

 

[Slow old poop]

Not a bad idea Rich. I know that the Tiburon community leeches onto a competition called the triple tuner challenge that takes place at Mid-Ohio for their yearly gathering even though it's open to a bunch of other makes and models.

The cool thing about the findtheline event is that it is unstructured, no rules, run what you brung, and they would probably be delighted to see 20 DSMs show up to join the festivities.

Rich

 

[Ludachris]

Hey guys, just to update you on this - no progress has been made. I wanted to get feedback to see how many people here would participated in a centrally located national event. It seems that it wouldn't be worth the time, money and effort right now. But eventually I think I will do one. Maybe we'll start with a few regional events first. I'm still weighing the options. And if the DSM community can't support an event like this on its own, then maybe we piggyback off of the EVO or WRX community. I'll let you know.

I bought the domain "turbo4challenge.com" just in case

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Do keep us updated. I know I would attent if located within a day's driving distance.

 

[Slow old poop]

Do keep us updated. I know I would attent if located within a day's driving distance.

Mapquest says 510 miles, 8 hr driving time from Wisconsin Rapids to Omaha, and is just about all Interstate. So, 510 divided by 80 mph is less than 7 hours.
Too far?

Looks like MAM is about the same distance from Chicago.

Rich

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Mapquest says 510 miles, 8 hr driving time from Wisconsin Rapids to Omaha, and is just about all Interstate. So, 510 divided by 80 mph is less than 7 hours.
Too far?

Looks like MAM is about the same distance from Chicago.

Rich

I'd go if it takes place in Omaha. as long is it does not interfere with a few events I have to attend over this summer.

 

[lethal_vr4]

I think there is enough support between the two groups to make this happen.

See my earlier post to this thread.

As Rich mentioned Mid-America Motorplex http://www.midamericamotorplex.com/2006/default.asp is cheap to rent, is centrally located, and has almost no walls to hit while being a good sized track that is pretty technical.

I would love to bring my track modified VR-4 out to a Mitsubishi national event and show Rich where he went wrong in life. I've thought about trying to organize something very similar for years for the 3/S platform. I would think we could easily get the 20 cars minimum @ $125.00 to rent MAM between just the two groups. Something along the lines of a All Mitsubishi Road Race or something snazzy like that. If it's sucessfull, we could move it around the country. I can help organize with MAM if there is interest.