Time Attack Event to Promote DSM/Mitsubishi Engineering and Embarrass Corvette

[TSiAWD666]

What about making this a Japanese vs Domestic track event? Could do that to get the rivalry you're looking for, and break it down first by the car types you just listed:
- Coupes (Vettes, DSMs, Camaros, GTOs, and many others)
- Sedans (Evos, Chargers, Subies, G8...)
- Trucks (There are some nutty trucks out there that do open track stuff. Had one last year in UTCC that looked like Mater from Cars, and I've seen plenty of Toyota trucks and Ford Lightnings out on track, even passing Porsche race cars).

Could then break each class down by weight/hp ratios.

 

[Evo3Codriver]

- Trucks (There are some nutty trucks out there that do open track stuff. Had one last year in UTCC that looked like Mater from Cars, and I've seen plenty of Toyota trucks and Ford Lightnings out on track, even passing Porsche race cars).

We drift a import truck and have won smaller events against LS1-swapped Nissans.

I plan to register for EMRA tonight. Need to mount tires and a tune (MachV probably).

 

[TSiAWD666]

Evo3Codriver, while I appreciate what you're doing it's a bit off-topic here. Perhaps start another thread about your event? Btw, Dan@Mach V doesn't really know how to tune Ecmlink at all, so if that's what you're having him tune I wouldn't. He'll tell you this to your face too, he is super honest and won't mislead you, but I wanted to let you know in advance so you can look at other options (which are few and far between in our area) since you have little time left. He can do a basic setup (and to be honest, after I learned what I was doing and saw what he configured he didn't do a proper job) but that's really about it.

 

[finnie3d]

What about making this a Japanese vs Domestic track event? Could do that to get the rivalry you're looking for, and break it down first by the car types you just listed:
- Coupes (Vettes, DSMs, Camaros, GTOs, and many others)
- Sedans (Evos, Chargers, Subies, G8...)
- Trucks (There are some nutty trucks out there that do open track stuff. Had one last year in UTCC that looked like Mater from Cars, and I've seen plenty of Toyota trucks and Ford Lightnings out on track, even passing Porsche race cars).

Could then break each class down by weight/hp ratios.

I like the sound of that actually. Takes a lot of load off. Makes it easier to get this first one off. (Especially since that show "Faster Than A Redneck" bit the dust.) I did initially hear back from Jon, just waiting for a few more details to be sure of exactly what I have to do.

I saw that "Mater" truck in the magazine and on the website. Won "fastest brick" that year if I remember correctly? It was all red and made like 550 I think.

So to verify power/weight, just have each car dyno and corner weight at tech inspect the day of? Is that how it's done? (Clearly I'm gonna have to pay you a consultant's fee. )

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Btw, Dan@Mach V doesn't really know how to tune Ecmlink at all,

Just a APEXi Super AFC.

So there is 1 purpose-built time trial DSM in the region that if dumped more $ into would have a chance of beating fast Corvettes.

I'd rather spend a weekend racing with/against people I like (not stereo-typical gold chain Corvette posers) and more interesting cars.

Import vs Domestic is the better idea but why list Subies and Mitsu when there are GTRs, Porsche, McLaren, Aston Martin, Benz, Audi R8 and anything Italian exotic to choose from.

Classing by HP/weight ratio blows for needing a dyno pull (no, tracks don't have a dyno to do at tech), time-consuming, $$ and accepting dynos local to drivers all vary), finding scales and policing just for a one-off for-fun event.

 

[TSiAWD666]

You won't have time to have people dyno and corner weight at the track. What NASA does is have you bring three timestamped dyno sheets from the same session showing the car having hit its rec limiter or a decline in HP after 300 rpm. The highest peak shown in the three sheets is their HP. Weight is on your honor but you could have that done at the event easily enough during tech. If there is a challenge to someone's HP you can always demand a re-test somehow .

 

[finnie3d]

I was thinking that technically, if somehow we arranged to have a Dyna Pack on site like at the Shootout, we could verify HP on the spot. But like Eco3 said, it's really just for fun and bragging rights. So if Weight is on honor, then HP might as well be too. I guess the true racers will shine through, or is there a system like in bracket racing that can let us know if someone is running "too fast" for a given Power/Weight class?

 

[TSiAWD666]

I only know of one portable dyno out of NC (or maybe it was SC, I forget) and while I could get info on it for you I don't think it's worth it. You don't really have time to dick around with a dyno while you're on track.

If done the way NASA handles it weight would be on your honor (but we could easily have some corner scales to quickly check weight at tech), and hp would require proof (certainly able to be faked) with the dyno sheets.

I'm not quite sure how NASA or other orgs verify a possible cheater as I haven't seen it happen. Theoretically you could have speed traps at the beginning and end of the straight and calculate acceleration from that to get a rough guess at weight/hp ratio.

 

[finnie3d]

Well, I can tell you now that with the amount of planning and logistics it will take to pull this off, I will not want to be policing a**holes on the day of that feel the need to cheat for zero (real) stakes, a trophy or whatever. If it's that important to them, even if they win, they can have their hollow victory. People who put their heart and soul into this will know the truth. Cheaters never prosper for long. If it works for NASA it works for me. Dyno sheets and "weight on honor" it is.

 

[D's GS-T]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but I think another thing to consider is driving experience from a safety perspective as well. It's probably not the best idea to have a bunch of noobs out there diving into corners at 100mph. the newbies belong in HPDEs and pretty much nowhere else. Maybe you could have some kind of set up with instructors as well, maybe even they could kind of run in there own class or something like that (Im not sure how you would regulate this). It's probably a lot safer that way, and I doubt most experienced racers are going to want to pay hard earned money on food, gas, car expenses, and other expenses to deal with a bunch of guys who have no idea what they are doing out there, and are putting others and themselves at risk.

 

[finnie3d]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but I think another thing to consider is driving experience from a safety perspective as well. It's probably not the best idea to have a bunch of noobs out there diving into corners at 100mph. the newbies belong in HPDEs and pretty much nowhere else. Maybe you could have some kind of set up with instructors as well, maybe even they could kind of run in there own class or something like that (Im not sure how you would regulate this). It's probably a lot safer that way, and I doubt most experienced racers are going to want to pay hard earned money on food, gas, car expenses, and other expenses to deal with a bunch of guys who have no idea what they are doing out there, and are putting others and themselves at risk.

Yeah D's, I think that's why they recommend you actually read the thread before you reply bro. It's a Time Attack event, and you're right, there's still a safety issue to be considered for all involved, but not the way you're thinking. Cars will only be out one at a time. Plus the goal is to partner the event with NASA (creator of the HPDE's) so they can oversee and administer track logistics. That will make the runs consistent, safe, fun and competitive for everyone that enters. Take your time and read up and see what we're all about. I hope you can come and join us on the track.

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Time Attack is not a single car on the track.

HPDE sound very boring. Its driving around cushy track in circles w/ babysitters at every corner. How hard can it be?

 

[cait sith]

Yeah D's, I think that's why they recommend you actually read the thread before you reply bro. It's a Time Attack event, and you're right, there's still a safety issue to be considered for all involved, but not the way you're thinking. Cars will only be out one at a time. Plus the goal is to partner the event with NASA (creator of the HPDE's) so they can oversee and administer track logistics. That will make the runs consistent, safe, fun and competitive for everyone that enters. Take your time and read up and see what we're all about. I hope you can come and join us on the track.

Have you actually ever been to a track event? Cars going out one at a time is a good way to have no one get any track time.

 

[TSiAWD666]

D's GS-T, Cait Sith, Evo3Codriver are all right.

Running a time trial with every car getting its own isolated lap is painfully slow and so orgs don't typically do this. You might get one or two laps in a day, which isn't much for people doing this out of their own pocket and spending tons of time just to run the event, so you want a format that provides more time for laps while keeping safety in mind.

The commonly used format is to run groups of cars, usually by class or classes, in order of time. Initial times are gathered during warm-up sessions (where it's a free-for-all). Organizing by time you are unlikely to pass the guy in front of you (as he is faster) and shouldn't be passed by the guy behind (as you are faster) so you should be able to get clean laps. Doesn't always work out exactly this way but it's about the best way to get a good amoutn of track time for everyone and a reasonable chance at clean laps too.

Also in tandem with this format is requiring extensive HPDE (or equivalent) experience typically. NASA requires all TT drivers have a TT license with NASA (which requires extensive HPDE experience plus a sign-off from the director) or a competition license from an acceptable organization, and for good reason. This is not only for each driver's safety, but for everyone else's. You can't just play Gran Turismo, do a couple downshift blips on the street, and expect to safely go out on track for a Time Trial, especially with other cars on the track. Auto-x doesn't count either. You need not only driving experience alone on a track at high speeds with corner workers/flags, but driving experience with other cars that can/will pass you or be passed by you. This is critical for the group format to be successful.

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Or, skip NASA and run w/ a sanctioning body that issues time trial licenses without HPDE requirements.

Funny how NASA rallysport allows drivers to drive AWD turbo monsters in remote forests without corner workers for 5-20 miles, without cushy tire walls or runoff areas; but with cliffs, jumps, boulders and the passing is done in the weeds. No driving instruction, just sit in on a couple hour noob seminar and listen if you want.

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[TSiAWD666]

While a less strict organization like EMRA might be convenient for you personally in that you already have quite a bit of experience (though I don't know if you have any on-track with cars passing or even know the flag system, which would concern me) he's going to have to account for drivers of all types, including those very new to this sort of thing.

I'm not getting on track, especially in a time trial environment where everyone is pushing the limits, with a bunch of inexperienced people that just listened to a seminar.

 

[D's GS-T]

Yeah D's, I think that's why they recommend you actually read the thread before you reply bro. It's a Time Attack event, and you're right, there's still a safety issue to be considered for all involved, but not the way you're thinking. Cars will only be out one at a time. Plus the goal is to partner the event with NASA (creator of the HPDE's) so they can oversee and administer track logistics. That will make the runs consistent, safe, fun and competitive for everyone that enters. Take your time and read up and see what we're all about. I hope you can come and join us on the track.

if you say so "bro" I know all about NASA and Time Attack.. some of us have actually competed in these events and know what we are talking about... we are trying to help man, lose the attitude. What you're describing isn't time attack either One car at a time on the track is going to be a big waste of Time/money. Why would anyone travel a long way, spend a bunch of time, effort, and money to prep a car for no track time. Do you have any idea how much time, effort, and money goes into prepping a car for a big event? Obviously there is lots of other concerns as well that have been brought up, but sounds like you got it all covered .

Good luck .

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Oooof. Just ooof. My head hurts.

I suggest many of you forget what your predetermined visions of "time trial/time attack/track racing" and instead go to a sanctioned event with multiple competitors in each class. Spend some time and talk with current drivers and get their impressions.

Vettes are fast out of the box, wether you like it or not. A STOCK C5 z06 vette with shocks and a set of Hoosiers has a record of 2:02 at VIR on their full course.

When a crazy-built DSM purpose built is doing 2:09s and you are shit-talking, you will not get responses from many respected drivers.

Good luck, keep an open mind, and leave the shit-talking to beers with your buddies. (NASA Road Racer and Time Trialer but previous DSM Road Racer)

 

[finnie3d]

if you say so "bro" I know all about NASA and Time Attack.. some of us have actually competed in these events and know what we are talking about... we are trying to help man, lose the attitude. What you're describing isn't time attack either One car at a time on the track is going to be a big waste of Time/money. Why would anyone travel a long way, spend a bunch of time, effort, and money to prep a car for no track time. Do you have any idea how much time, effort, and money goes into prepping a car for a big event? Obviously there is lots of other concerns as well that have been brought up, but sounds like you got it all covered .

Good luck .

Yeah, let me tell you, that humble pie has a bitter filling... *my apologies*

Talked with Jon Felton (thanks for the connect GSX) and there's a lot more to setting something like this up than I realized - and yep, due to my inexperience. The type event I originally imagined is possible, but there are a few steps in between I'll have to take before I can realize the grand vision.

So I'm going back to the drawing board to be a bit more practical for the early stages, and I'll come back with something real. and if I can ever get past my transmission gremlins, I'll actually enter some time attack events myself and get some time on track for myself. It's all I really want anyway.

Thanks to everybody who viewed and replied! I appreciate the feedback.
#Diamonds

 

[AK Maniak]

It's nice to see people take feedback somewhat gracefully. I have literally zero experience in any kind of racing aside from a few 1/4 passes but the best piece of advice I can give you is lose the hash tags
#ThisIsn'tTwitterOrInstagramAndYourAudienceProbablyWon'tRelateToSuch

 

[LandoAWD]

Since I missed this moronic post...

The people who say these kinds of things don't appreciate or understand the engineering and design behind imports... so why again are you on a DSM forum still with a hyundai? Maybe you should have invested in some displacement rather than a "replacement."

Are you slow? What does my car choice have to do with physics, toolshed? I posted an example for the rest of the helmet-wearers several posts before this. Did you miss it?

Yeah, let me tell you, that humble pie has a bitter filling... *my apologies*

Talked with Jon Felton (thanks for the connect GSX) and there's a lot more to setting something like this up than I realized - and yep, due to my inexperience. The type event I originally imagined is possible, but there are a few steps in between I'll have to take before I can realize the grand vision.

So I'm going back to the drawing board to be a bit more practical for the early stages, and I'll come back with something real. and if I can ever get past my transmission gremlins, I'll actually enter some time attack events myself and get some time on track for myself. It's all I really want anyway.

Thanks to everybody who viewed and replied! I appreciate the feedback.
#Diamonds

Step 1: Continually tell us we're wrong.
Step 2: Make sure car is broken
Step 3: Eat crow 4 months later

Congrats.

 

[byebye_sti]

Hey guys,

Why don't you just come out to a NARRA event? (narraonline.com) The organization is amazing, and they do a lot of PR stuff. Constant Facebook/Twitter/Email updates throughout the event, Webisodes from every event, and so much love for Time Attackers.

NARRA is hands down the best organization I've ever run with. Their format is awesome, and the schedule is like clockwork. Not too mention you get to see the Viper series run, as well as USGT Challenge, during the weekend.

If you want to run with fast Evo, fast Vipers, and fast Vettes, then you HAVE to come out to an event - at least spectate.

You'll find me out there for the majority of the events this year, as I'll be running for the North Cup Championship while defending some of my TT3 Track Records.

Here is my Evo;

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And some coverage from a NARRA event at Pitt Race (formely Beaver Run);

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[cait sith]

Hey guys,

Why don't you just come out to a NARRA event? (narraonline.com) The organization is amazing, and they do a lot of PR stuff. Constant Facebook/Twitter/Email updates throughout the event, Webisodes from every event, and so much love for Time Attackers.

NARRA is hands down the best organization I've ever run with. Their format is awesome, and the schedule is like clockwork. Not too mention you get to see the Viper series run, as well as USGT Challenge, during the weekend.

If you want to run with fast Evo, fast Vipers, and fast Vettes, then you HAVE to come out to an event - at least spectate.

You'll find me out there for the majority of the events this year, as I'll be running for the North Cup Championship while defending some of my TT3 Track Records.

Here is my Evo;
<images snipped for brevity>

I remember your car up @ NHMS with COM back in July! I don't want to speak for anyone here, but for most folks (including my own hunk of junk), our cars aren't exactly to prep for NARRA, and more than likely never will be, and on top of that, will never be competitive.

 

[byebye_sti]

I remember your car up @ NHMS with COM back in July! I don't want to speak for anyone here, but for most folks (including my own hunk of junk), our cars aren't exactly to prep for NARRA, and more than likely never will be, and on top of that, will never be competitive.

COM is a great group. Especially if you're looking to get started doing track days. They have amazing instructors, and their classroom sessions are very helpful.

I love NHMS, and they're one of the only groups that goes there (PCA, and SCDA go there as well but they don't like my car running with them ).

Anyway, NARRA does HPDE's as well, and you get an instructor from the Time Attack group. If you want to learn/improve, it's great atomosphere to be around.

Don't have to be in competition to have fun out on the track.