My quest for a 10 second DSM questions

[supersplat310]

Im looking to build a full out track car capable of running 10's or better. Can anyone give me the rundown on some of basic things I will need. My parts list is as follows:

t67 turbo
unknown intercooler
unknown wastegate
FIC fuel rail
FIC 1000cc injectors
Wallbro 255lph w/ rewire
Eagle crank
Weisco pistons
Eagle H beam rods
280/280 cams
adjustable cam gears


And thats about all I got right now. My biggest concern is making sure I get the RIGHT parts needed for this build. I dont want to skimp out on something cheap, nor do I want to get something that cant withstand power or psi (25-30)


Any suggestions folks?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

You'll need new valve springs, something like Kiggly, Manley, etc..., too to work the t-67 top end especially on 280 cams.

 

[Urban Survival]

You also can add some kind of engine management to the list.

 

[RadDsm]

You won't need an Eagle crank either.

Are you planning on doing this on pump gas?

 

[supersplat310]

Yes, pump gas (93 octance)

DSMlink v3 but I havent bought it yet

And Im planning on doing a full top end build. Not to mention im having the trans built up, new driveshaft, all the good stuff.


Why wont I need a performance crank?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Stock crank does the job and you don't need a driveshaft either. Save your self the on the items and install a methanol kit to get 30-35 psi because pump will only get like 25 psi. max on a t-67 turbo.

 

[danl]

Thats a pretty big turbo for such a goal. It only takes about 450whp in a tastefully lightened DSM to run 10's at 126-130. If you know what you are doing a 20g at 25 or so psi boost will do it. Something in the 45-50lbs/min category will get it done. Something as big of a turbo as you want takes skill and experience to get out of the hole cleanly and down the track cleanly. I've seen them before and I will see them again, cars with big turbos, big power, and 12 second slips.

With a good intercooler you can do it on pump gas. You going to want one of the 3.8" thick garret cores. My JMF is performing flawlessly. I'm only moving about 39-40lbs/min right now (just keeping the power down) but IAT's are ambient for the extent of a pull from 0-130mph.

I'd recommend a good stock bottom end, they seem reliable for 10 second passes. Just make sure the head is good or freshen it up and use stock size valves. The most expensive valvesprings you can afford is always the best investment. Something mild like a FP2 cam would be excellent for that flow range. 1000cc/min injectors would get it done and you don't really even need a rewire if you will be running on gasolene.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

I agree with danl, you'll make nothing happen on a t-67 on pump. Boosting 25 psi is not going to doing anything, big turbos NEEDS high boosting to work those high airflows in the topend. Boosting 25 psi is simply just a waste of what the that turbo is capable of and you'll only end up with a LAGGY turbo.

 

[supersplat310]

Well, im not worrying about lag, only becuase my car is an automatic, and will stay that way. I want to start off slow with 25 or so PSI, then eventually my overall goal is 40 psi. But that wont happen for years. I want a nice 10 second car, streetable, put still has crazy power when i stomp on the gas.

 

[spartan69x]

Holeset HX-35 is plenty capable of what you want, and cheap too.

 

[supersplat310]

Honestly, Ive never really been a fan of the holset line. Ive always had a liking for the T series turbo's. Like I said, its an automatic, so lag is not really an issue.

 

[supersplat310]

anybody else have anything to add?

 

[KazooGS-T]

anybody else have anything to add?

A true t4 t67 is really too much for what you want. I'm going to be running a T58 and it will easily get into the 10's.

You're going to need a good t4 manifold, most likely a couple of 44/45/46mm wastegates, a fair amount of tuning, if you ever want to run e85 you're going to have to completely redo your fuel system. (Just keep that in mind)

Also, since your car is an auto you're going to want a stall/shift kit/manual shift box/etc.

You're still a long way from what you want. Your best bet is to get rid of the t67 and get a more street friendly turbo, you can reach your goal with a much smaller turbo.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

You're going to need a good t4 manifold, most likely a couple of 44/45/46mm wastegates...

Not true... a bigger wastegates are generally used for cars that want to run lower boost. If you do high boost you won't need the exhaust gas exiting fast. It'd be better if it were to stay long for to get the spool up, hence small is okay.

Secondly, it you were to go to a big t4 turbo, I'd do a divided turbo and manifold setup so it spool significantly faster.

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[KazooGS-T]

I said most likely, because most newer t4 manifolds run 44/45/46mm wastegate flanges. I'm not trying to have an argument about wastegates or boost levels here. Shearer, JMFab, etc all use the wastegate size that I'm talking about, for the most part.

Also, my t58 is "divided" so I have no doubt that a t67 will also. I don't think I've ever seen a non-divided t4 turbo honestly, or a t4 manifold. Also a divded flange doesn't mean that your manifold is twin-scroll.

 

[BigBeans]

I might want to check out your car and get a few runs with you once this comes together.

Add a GM 3" (or 3.5") MAF and MAF-T to the list.

Skip the crank and fuel rail.

No fuel rail needed, save the money unless you plan on buying E85 by the drum (E85 will corrode the stock rail, but it's still not available in RI). Go bigger on the injectors, and throw 2 rewired wally 255s in the tank if you plan on really squeezing 550+whp on 93. You'll need -6 lines and an adjustable FPR (or evo FPR) at the minimum.

I've got 880cc injectors maxed on pump gas (90% DC), and i know i can't hit a 10 right now on straight 93...NE dragway opens sat, hoping for mid 11s on a 54lb turbo and pump gas. Adding methanol and some more injector will get my car into your target range on a much smaller turbo.

I just bought the Delta K272 cams to upgrade my HKSs and i haven't received them yet, but they are BIG (bigger than some 280s because of ramp rate). They're also cheap ($368 shipped to RI)

What stall speed?

Streetable eh?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Also, my t58 is "divided" so I have no doubt that a t67 will also. I don't think I've ever seen a non-divided t4 turbo honestly, or a t4 manifold. Also a divded flange doesn't mean that your manifold is twin-scroll.

There are non-divided t4 turbos and I'd like to rephrase my suggest; it'd be best to get a twin-scroll setup.

Add a GM 3" (or 3.5") MAF and MAF-T to the list.

Save yourself the money and go with ECMLink and use the speed density option.

 

[kngofbrknprts]

Go bigger on the injectors, and throw 2 rewired wally 255s in the tank if you plan on really squeezing 550+whp on 93. You'll need -6 lines and an adjustable FPR (or evo FPR) at the minimum.

I agree, or you can go with a bosch. i would go with a 1200cc injector but an AFPR is a must.

you can reach your goal with some 272's and keep the stock springs, just a thought

 

[BigBeans]

Save yourself the money and go with ECMLink and use the speed density option.

Ahh, I'm a V2 guy, so i didn't even think about that.

 

[supersplat310]

Ok so, to sum it all up, I dont need to upgrade my crank. Slight upgrade on the bottom and top end of the motor. Which turbo would you suggest? DSMlink is a must. (obviously) 1000cc injectors, possibly higher. Im getting a 16 gallon fuel cell with sending unit, on a wallbro 255lph pump. Already did the fuel rail. Relocated the battery to the rear, almost finished the 8 point roll cage. anything else i might of missed???

 

[kp116]

As for fuel you might want to consider race gas or even e85. With e85 your probably going to need to change your fuel set up. Do you plan on running street tires or getting some dr's or even slicks? With that big of a turbo you might even want to think about nitrous to help it spool up and get out of the hole considering its a auto.

 

[KazooGS-T]

Ok so, to sum it all up, I dont need to upgrade my crank. Slight upgrade on the bottom and top end of the motor. Which turbo would you suggest? DSMlink is a must. (obviously) 1000cc injectors, possibly higher. Im getting a 16 gallon fuel cell with sending unit, on a wallbro 255lph pump. Already did the fuel rail. Relocated the battery to the rear, almost finished the 8 point roll cage. anything else i might of missed???

Pick up another wally, that way you will have enough fuel, just to be safe.

Also, think about picking up STM's fuel tank to rail kit. It's around $200 shipped and will replace the lines from the tank to the rail, comes with a fuelab filter, all the -an fittings needed, etc.

I would go ahead with 1200-1600cc injectors, make sure you have an AFPR also.

I don't really see a need for a fuel cell, but that is completely up to you.

Get a good rod/piston combo, stock crank will be fine. Make sure to get headstuds and a good headgasket. You'll want a complete engine gasket kit (I wouldn't necessarily use the HG supplied, but everything else will be needed). You're going to need new bearings, rings should be supplied with your pistons.

Make sure to get the head and block both decked, cleaned up, valve job done (if you are buying springs/retainers, bring them with you for this as they have to be removed for the valve job and will cost nothing to put in) and have the crank checked out along with those. (The machine shop will tell you what size bearings you're going to need).

As far as cams go, the sky is the limit and it is completely up to you what you pick. There are cams that are easily compatible with stock springs/retainers, but it's up to you on what you want/need.

The turbo you decide upon reflects your budget and goals. So does the turbo manifold, wastegate setup, intercooler setup, etc. It just depends what you want to do, I have a T58 and it is an awesome street turbo in retrospect. If you want a street car, make sure you are using a street friendly turbo. I'm not building a "street car" as it is not my DD and is only for racing, so a big turbo to me wouldn't mess with things.

You could always pick up other little odds and ends (SMIM, cam gears, throttle body, etc) it's up to your budget and your goals.

 

[STGIIITsi]

I would get a built REAR End esp with an AUTO. Look into forced performance they are the S*(^!

 

[chardbox03]

Go with the AEM EMS V2 it makes dsmlike look like a stereo equalizer. Expensive but far greater tuning capability. True Boost also i like the idea of the turbo running on the computer

 

[STGIIITsi]

I'm building a Slowboy Built Motor with a DNP mani, FP Turbo, Universal FMIC, And the rest Punishmant goodies plus V3 and going to E85 we will see how it does this year at 5400+ ft above Sea level!