My Logger reads...(help please)

[Talon-96]

Ok this Is what my logger reads, it wasnt all the way warm yet but anyways at about 10 mph I punched it through first and second it read up to 62 mph, so hopefully that gives you an idea of what it should reading cause I have no idea. ok heres what it read:

Start End


Load: 25% 5%

Coolant temp: 154 deg. 156 deg.

ST FT 1: 0% -11% (what is this?)

LT FT 1: -5% 0% (what is this?)

Timing: 7 deg. 23 deg.

Air temp: 80 deg. F 78 degF

Air Flow: 0.53 lb/min 0.82 lb/min

throttle POS: 0% 0%

02 1, Bank 1: 0.68v 6% 0.00v 0% (what is this)

02 2, Bank 1: 0.08v 5% 0.04v 0% (what is this?)

 

[donmagicjuan]

This post doesn't really give us the necessary information to let us evaluate your tune.

For conventional log file advice posts, check out the Log File Advice forum or, as an example, this thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237545
The idea is to get a good capture at WOT from below 2500 RPMs.

I know that you can't currently post in that forum, but if you mimic the format and post it in the Newbie forum, someone should be able to help you.

STFT = short term fuel trim
LTFT = long term fuel trim

 

[Spooling99]

What software are you using?

 

[Talon-96]

obd2 from pocketlogger.com

 

[spyderturbo007]

I really can't tell you much about that log, because I have no idea what points correspond to what. You need to post the entire log, from start to finish in an "orderly fashion" so we can see what's going on. Something like this would be great:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Before you make a pull, take the car to WOT and verify that the TPS is reading close to 100%. After you do that, make a 3rd gear pull from 2.5k to redline, logging rpm, timing, O2 (#1) and airflow.

Ok, on to your questions. STFT & LTFT stand for Short Term and Long Term Fuel Trim, respectfully. This is the percentage of fuel that the ECU is adding or removing based on feedback from the O2 sensor. This value has no meaning above a TPS value of 80% or a rpm value in excess of 4000. At this point the ECU is attempting to maintain an AFR of 14.7:1. This provides you with the most fuel efficient combustion mixture (stoichometric point).

On to the O2 sensor question..... Our cars only have 1 bank, whereas a V-8 would have 2 banks. O2 #1 stands for Oxygen Sensor #1. Normally this is the front O2 sensor which is located before the catalytic converter. This is where all the majic happens. Oxygen Sensor #2 (O2 2) is the second O2 sensor located behind the catalytic converter. This one is worthless, well at least from a performance aspect.

O2 #1 is the sensor that the ECU uses to calculate fuel delivery like I described above. O2 #2 is only there to "show" the ECU that the catalytic converter is functioning properly.

If you have anyother questions, or I have confused you further, please let me know!


EDIT---> Man, you guys are fast. I guess I need to learn to type faster.

 

[donmagicjuan]

Hah, I win! Seriously, it's no biggie. You went above and beyond the call of duty on that one.

 

[Talon-96]

thank you ill repost with results in a few.

 

[Talon-96]

Theres only problem with writing it out like that It only reads off every 2-3 seconds so i cant get that good of data. Is there a better way to view it.

 

[donmagicjuan]

How many parameters are you logging at once? I'm not familiar with your logger, but in general, turning off all but the necessary parameters (i.e. rpm, timing, O2 volts) should increase your sample rate.

 

[Talon-96]

ok i was doing them all sorry ill try again

 

[Talon-96]

RPM Timing o2 voltage

2412 19 0.94
2572 11 0.94
2792 4 0.96
3056 3 0.96
3316 5 0.96
3612 7 0.96
3856 8 0.96
4128 10 0.96
4372 11 0.96
4612 12 0.96
4852 12 0.96
5092 13 0.96
5300 13 0.96
5532 14 0.96
5732 17 0.96
5944 18 0.96
6112 19 0.94
6284 18 0.94
6440 20 0.94
6572 20 0.94
6700 19 0.94
6928 20 0.94
6220 20 0.64
4208 34 0.56
3208 23 0.58


ok here it is tell me what you think please.

 

[donmagicjuan]

I'd like to know what boost you're running, and also what gear that is. Third gear pulls tend to give a good compromise between stable data and safety. It would seem that you're seeing some knock in various places throughout that run, which you can tell by the timing values. You should see timing steadily increase from the onset of full boost until redline, peaking somewhere in the high teens to low twenties. I really wish you had more data points to evaluate, but you can see in a couple places where timing actually goes down as RPMs go up. This means the ECU is detecting knock and is pulling timing.

My initial recommendation is to log a 3rd gear pull (if this isn't one) and, if the timing curve is the same, lower your boost to see if you can improve the curve.

Good luck and let us know if you have anymore questions.

 

[Talon-96]

That was a third gear pull, it maxes out at 13psi. Doesnt the timing max out right? it ends at 20.

 

[alex99gst]

It does climb, but it is a little jumpier than other logs I've seen. When the timing drops during the climb like in this section you are getting knock.

6112 19 0.94
6284 18 0.94
6440 20 0.94
6572 20 0.94
6700 19 0.94

When the timing drops, your ECU is retarding the timing because it knows it is knocking and it is trying to prevent it by retarding the timing. You always want to tune for no knock. It doesn't look like you are knocking too bad or anything, but it wouldn't hurt to just barely turn the boost down a tad or just not push your car that hard.

 

[donmagicjuan]

I was more concerned with the dips in your timing curve than the final value. It would seem that you're getting some timing pulled at 6200 and again at 6700. Your initial drop in timing upon reaching full boost is also a little drastic, but other than that things look alright. You really shouldn't be seeing any knock at that boost level. Can you log another pull to see if the timing is consistently being pulled in those areas?

EDIT: You got me, Alex.

 

[Talon-96]

ya ill do another pull in a little bit, how do you know how much knock you have?

 

[Talon-96]

ok heres from second to redline through third to redline

3136 14 .96
3636 6 .96
4348 7 .96
4948 9 .96
5524 11 .96
6084 15 .96
6564 18 .96
7004 21 .96
third gear(boosts to 14psi)
6008 23 .76
4776 36 .94
5072 11 .96
5280 12 .96
5492 14 .96
5712 16 .96
5932 18 .96
6092 18 .96
6304 20 .96
6464 20 .96
6640 22 .96
6796 22 .96
6940 22 .96
7068 23 .94

 

[alex99gst]

ya ill do another pull in a little bit, how do you know how much knock you have?

You don't unless you have an OBD 1 car. Us 1g guys are lucky because we can see exactly how much knock we have. You just have to watch your timing curve and make sure that there are no dips in it. You can tell when some peoples are more severe than others because it will dip more or less.

 

[alex99gst]

That log looks better even though its easier to read just a 3rd gear pull. You can see that there are no dips in the timing curve, so therefore you were not knocking. Your car seems healthy.

 

[olmytsi]

You can read knock on 2gs with dsmlink.

 

[donmagicjuan]

The third gear portion of that log looks much better, but remember when logging that it's best to start at a low RPM and do just a WOT run for the one gear. It looks to me that the timing being pulled in the first log could have been incidental. However, it's a good idea to take logs routinely and analyze them to make sure you're staying safe.

It also looks like you have some room to lean it out and up the boost a little, but never do both simultaneously between logs! I'm not very proficient with narrowband tuning, but I believe you can lean out to 0.92-0.94V pretty safely. Just try taking out fuel a percent or two at a time and be sure to log the results. If you see signs of knock, then you've gone too far. Once you have the AFR where you want it, you can try raising the boost in small increments. Usually a max of 15-16 psi is a good rule of thumb on a T25, but only by looking at your logs will you know the max for your setup.

Just be patient and remember that tuning is a very iterative process. You should see some appreciable gains from where you are now without risking any damage to the engine.

 

[Talon-96]

ok thanks guys this logger thing was a very good idea if you want to keep your car healthy and running to its potential. I learned alot today thanks again to all of you.

 

[donmagicjuan]

No problem, you're adventures are just beginning!

 

[spyderturbo007]

Doesnt the timing max out right? it ends at 20.

Not unless the ECU sees more than 2.1g/rev of airflow. At that point, it caps your timing at 17 degrees.

For running the T-2small and a stock fuel system, your first log looks fine. Chances are that where you are losing timing, the ECU yanked it for another reason. Coolant temp over 210 and you loose 1 degree, IAT over 84 degrees, and you loose 1 degree. Or it could have been as simple as the ECU bumping you up on a higher airflow map. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it......It looks fine.

 

[mitsu420at]

Hah, I win! Seriously, it's no biggie. You went above and beyond the call of duty on that one.

wow yes he did