My 20g results on stock motor laser.

[beansblacktsi]

Went to the dyno the other day to get my car tuned. On my 23psi tune it put down 364hp and 335tq. On my 30psi tune it put down 376hp and 392tq.

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Details on my laser: It has stock motor and trans with 145,000mile on it with stock head gasket from the factory with arp headstuds, it has a bastard 20g, Tial 38mm wastegate, 3inch exhaust, Fp race manifold, walbro 255, afpr, RC1000s, and tuning was done on ECMLINK. The car was tuned on E-85 and both maps are very conservative.
Let me know what you guys think, If we would of added some more timing we could of hit 400 but didn't want to risk it. But I was expecting a little more out of this turbo but we were maxing it out at 30psi. I am happy with the numbers though and we will see what it will do at the track this Friday (if it doesn't rain).

 

[habitatguy187]

What were your IDC's? And have you done a compression test on your motor recently? I'm running my bastard 20g at 22psi and will be trying out full e85 on 750s and higher base fuel pressure, just trying to get some numbers together as I know I'll really be pushing the IDCs.

 

[Cassera]

Wow, that's an impressive difference in torque from 23 to 30 psi.
I think you could have made 400hp with a set of cams. Cams would be like putting a cherry of a sundae. Actually, more like all the toppings on a sundae

 

[beansblacktsi]

What were your IDC's? And have you done a compression test on your motor recently? I'm running my bastard 20g at 22psi and will be trying out full e85 on 750s and higher base fuel pressure, just trying to get some numbers together as I know I'll really be pushing the IDCs.

My IDC on 23psi was 80% and on 30psi it was 87% and my fuel pressure was at 46 with vacuum line off. And I haven't checked compression for a few months but all cylinders were around 155 the last I checked.

Wow, that's an impressive difference in torque from 23 to 30 psi.
I think you could have made 400hp with a set of cams. Cams would be like putting a cherry of a sundae. Actually, more like all the toppings on a sundae

haha I know man I do need some and want some but I don't want to put more money in it right now because Im building a awd colt right now and going to college, but maybe some day. And It had 400 in it but didnt really want to push the stock motor. We only had 15 degrees timing up top and if we added another 4 throught we should of hit it but better safe than sorry for now!! The torque is just crazy now coming from my 16g setup that made 300tq! Can we talk about tire spin? I just hope I hook at the track

 

[habitatguy187]

That's very low timing for e85. It's probably hurting you more than it is keeping the motor safe. If it were me I'd bump it up to 20 at least, e85 likes advanced timing and I don't recall the exact reason why but it burns better with more timing advance.

 

[RedEyeBanDiT]

Thats badass! Congratulations. Did you redo the headgasket and motor? Or just pull off the valve cover, and replace the head bolts with studs? 6 bolt I assume?

 

[donniekak]

That's very low timing for e85. It's probably hurting you more than it is keeping the motor safe. If it were me I'd bump it up to 20 at least, e85 likes advanced timing and I don't recall the exact reason why but it burns better with more timing advance.

It burns slower than gasoline. My conservative e-85 tune at 30 psi was 10* around peak torque and 18* up top with a gas scale afr of 11.3:1. Going to 16* at peak torque, and 22* up top, with a gas scale afr of 12.6:1 was a very noticible gain. This is on stock 6-bolt head bolts, and a composite gasket. Remember, even though its a stock block, you are tuning alcohol on 7.8:1 compression. I'm currently going 9:1 compression with cams, so i will start a little more conservative, and work my way up. If you don't have dyno acess, a logged 60-80 mph, or what ever you prefer, can be used to tune by comparing times.

 

[beansblacktsi]

Thats badass! Congratulations. Did you redo the headgasket and motor? Or just pull off the valve cover, and replace the head bolts with studs? 6 bolt I assume?

Well all i did was replace each bolt one at a time with the studs. The head has never been off this motor so the head gasket is 100% from the factory with 145,000 miles on it. And yes its a 6bolt!!

It burns slower than gasoline. My conservative e-85 tune at 30 psi was 10* around peak torque and 18* up top with a gas scale afr of 11.3:1. Going to 16* at peak torque, and 22* up top, with a gas scale afr of 12.6:1 was a very noticible gain. This is on stock 6-bolt head bolts, and a composite gasket. Remember, even though its a stock block, you are tuning alcohol on 7.8:1 compression. I'm currently going 9:1 compression with cams, so i will start a little more conservative, and work my way up. If you don't have dyno acess, a logged 60-80 mph, or what ever you prefer, can be used to tune by comparing times.

Ill have to keep that in mind I never knew that thank you very much for that info man!

 

[FLASH1970]

Good numbers. But yeah, e-85 can handle more timing.

 

[danl]

Nice, thats about what you get out of a 20g but they run good at the strip.

 

[turboglenn]

nice numbers, nice torque too! I'd like to see the actuall graph if you can upload it... should be nice and broad if it looks like i'm thinking it does

Give ya a little hint on the e85... Don't go any richer than11.5:1 AFR and you can get more timing out of it easy... I'm sticking my new tune about 11.8 - 12.4:1 AFR and have the timing at 21* at all boosts above 11psi (higher st lower boosts) and that's from 3500RPM on up ro 9500 where my Rev limiter is set.... With 11:1 flat i would get all sorts of knock with that timing, but in the mid to low 12's on AFR i never register the slightest pickup of noise from my J&S knock safeguard, and the higher you rev the higher you should get the timing in those revs since the engine is spinning faster you need to light it off earlier to get the burn completed in time to make peak cylinder pressure somewhere abour ~15* or so ATDC ( i try and make PCP anywhere from 15 - 23* ATDC)

Rich knock is the only real issue i have to fight when tuning on e85, other than that just watch EGT's if ya got em to ensure you're not getting too hot, but with higher timing you actually keep a lower EGT anyway because the heat is staying inside the CC and being used for it's energy that's being released instead of shooting out the exh valkves and being wasted just spinning the turbine faster and making the gate bypass more gasses than needed

 

[92GSXtacy]

Was the 11.9 in your profile done on this same set up?

 

[turboglenn]

Was the 11.9 in your profile done on this same set up?

who are ya askin? i don't think i put any AFr's in my profile (soprry just a little confused casue the question doesnt' say who it's for)

 

[92GSXtacy]

To the OP, sorry. He has that time in his profile but I know alot of people have numbers from other setups in their profiles.

 

[toofast82]

Good numbers especially on stock cams and a tdo5h turbine
As said, it might not hurt to throw a few more degrees of timing at it

 

[delta448]

Good numbers especially on stock cams and a tdo5h turbine
As said, it might not hurt to throw a few more degrees of timing at it

Exactly. That's pretty good on stock cams and a TD05H turbine!

The TD05H turbine wheel is too small for a 20G compressor in my opinion, an E3 16G can max out that hotside.

 

[JusMX141]

The TD05H turbine wheel is too small for a 20G compressor in my opinion, an E3 16G can max out that hotside.

...up to a certain boost level. At 20-22psi the 20G compressor will still outflow the Evo III and spool almost as fast when mated to a TD05H turbine.

The whole FP HTA68 still puzzles me....how can they claim 47lb/min of airflow from a turbo with a turbine that has maxed out at around 42lb/min on any other turbo it's been used on thus far?

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

This makes me feel hopeless to get my 400hp out of my FP18g+meth.. But I do have cams

 

[beansblacktsi]

Good numbers. But yeah, e-85 can handle more timing.

Haha yeah somebody told me that at the track so we slowly increased the timing to 19*. The car seemed to love it and I would of went further but decided to play it safe!

nice numbers, nice torque too! I'd like to see the actuall graph if you can upload it... should be nice and broad if it looks like i'm thinking it does

Give ya a little hint on the e85... Don't go any richer than11.5:1 AFR and you can get more timing out of it easy... I'm sticking my new tune about 11.8 - 12.4:1 AFR and have the timing at 21* at all boosts above 11psi (higher st lower boosts) and that's from 3500RPM on up ro 9500 where my Rev limiter is set.... With 11:1 flat i would get all sorts of knock with that timing, but in the mid to low 12's on AFR i never register the slightest pickup of noise from my J&S knock safeguard, and the higher you rev the higher you should get the timing in those revs since the engine is spinning faster you need to light it off earlier to get the burn completed in time to make peak cylinder pressure somewhere abour ~15* or so ATDC ( i try and make PCP anywhere from 15 - 23* ATDC)

Rich knock is the only real issue i have to fight when tuning on e85, other than that just watch EGT's if ya got em to ensure you're not getting too hot, but with higher timing you actually keep a lower EGT anyway because the heat is staying inside the CC and being used for it's energy that's being released instead of shooting out the exh valkves and being wasted just spinning the turbine faster and making the gate bypass more gasses than needed

Thanks for the info man I appreciate it and yeah ill find the graph for you and post it up. And btw we should meet up some time I might be coming up to MAM sometime soon but ill let you know!

Was the 11.9 in your profile done on this same set up?

Yup it sure is the car went 11.90 at 119.55. My e.t. would of been alot better if I had a trans that could actually shift, this stock trans with 145,000+ miles on it does not like all this torque! but I was very happy with my trap speed!

 

[MI48UR8]

Do you still have the 20g? What other improvements have you made?

 

[DSMTyson]

Zombie thread!

 

[beansblacktsi]

Do you still have the 20g? What other improvements have you made?

I actually just sold it this year and but this last season the turbo did go 11.3 at 119 with a crappy 60ft after switching to auto!
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ymYE2ZZ2JGo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[slow1gentsi]

Ah yes this thread is giving me hope for my sad little car. I am going to install my BR20g this weekend. I definitely have the supporting mods for it. So in a few weeks here in Boise, ID we are getting an AWD dyno and I am hoping for the obvious 400 awhp but with those TQ numbers maybe I can see 450 awtq.

 

[MI48UR8]

I actually just sold it this year and but this last season the turbo did go 11.3 at 119 with a crappy 60ft after switching to auto!

Dang. Too bad, I would have liked to have seen you really push this set-up. This turbo is often overlooked these days. People forget that this was the first 10 second turbo set-up. I love the MHI reliability and the torque these turbos make. I have one on my car. Either way, good thread.

 

[ziggo0]

^Well, don't get your hopes down just yet. I have this coming up...

Fresh 6 bolt, 2g pistons, 1g rods.
SIM 275 cams, EVO 9 beehive springs/retainers
ARP Head Studs
Port Matched/Polished 2g Exhaust Manifold.
3in Exhaust
Walbro 255
Aeromotive AFPR
Bosch "1680"s (huge I know, got them for a GREAT price though).
100% e85
TD05H 20g, shimmed WGA.
POS ebay intercooler (will be getting replaced)

So pretty much an exact copy of the car above, FWD too. I won't settle for less than 400whp/tq on paper