Modify Stock Lifters Instead of Buying Revised?

[jakvett]

I am starting to get lifter tick on my 99 GST only when it's cold (outside and engine temp), and have read up on the subject. The cheapest revised lifters I can find are on ebay for $100. However, I have unlimited free access to a full machine shop and was wondering if I could modify the stock lifters in order eliminate the tick.

I think I could put the lifters in a lathe, and drill out the top holes to the revised lifter's size. I could then use the lathe to cut the larger groove in the side (if that has any effect on the tick).

It seems like a simple process, but I haven't read about anyone trying it. Does anyone have any experience or see any issues with my plan? Worst comes to worst, the lifters are unusable, and I buy revised lifters.

 

[KAOI]

Very cool. Even though its pretty straight forward you should do a write up

How did you go about cleaning them out after?

 

[DSM1G90]

How did you go about cleaning them out after?

.... What I was wondering ....

 

[keltalon]

Interesting where I thought that the oil from the pump hits the crank first where it's most needed, then heads up to the top end and why would a milimeter or two difference in opening diameter would drastically reduce oil pressure when there is other areas in the block that has much more higher oil flow than the lifter area?

Sorry, not buying this one. If you got facts on this issue, please share them with us-just don't "think".

-DSM

Hey we are not talking about oil pressure we are talking about amount of oil. Once the oil pump reach max oil pressure the spring in the pump opens. That happen later in the game with the 3g lifters in which more oil is needed because of the bigger lifter orfice more oil in the head that cannot drain back fast enough for the bottom end to have any to use first because its all up on the head. Dsm have a terrible oil drain back system kiggly has already proven this and that is why he came up with a way to limit oil to the lifters so that most of the oil stays in the bottom end and not starve for oil. But the real culprit is the 3g lifters. You don't have to buy my theory I have been sold since I did it and it works superb! Look at these lifters one on the left is stock one on the right 3g there is a big difference in hole size now multiply that by 16 and then add 8000 revolutions per minute this equals starvation of oil on the bottom end which equals a slow death on the engine. Trust me or not it works and I don't care if anybody chose to do this it benefits me none the less

 

[keltalon]

Very cool. Even though its pretty straight forward you should do a write up

How did you go about cleaning them out after?

Give me a minute and I will do a video of the process

 

[keltalon]

http://youtu.be/ue95zJ3wMHU

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ue95zJ3wMHU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[TofastForU_99]

We sell them 89.99 for a set 3G Lifters

 

[KAOI]

Very nice!
Thanks for the video!

 

[WES_393]

Just how much oil do you guys think flows through an HLA during a 1/4 mile pass? I can promise you it's ounces, not quarts. Kiggly said otherwise? Well he's also in the business of selling DSM parts...

If your worried about oil starvation from HLA's, pick up some of these:

National Performance Parts Warehouse - SOLID LIFTER KIT:4G63 DOHC ALL (SET)

 

[DSM1G90]

With solids, how do you adjust the lash then, or do you?

 

[bryanwheat]

Hey we are not talking about oil pressure we are talking about amount of oil. Once the oil pump reach max oil pressure the spring in the pump opens. That happen later in the game with the 3g lifters in which more oil is needed because of the bigger lifter orfice more oil in the head that cannot drain back fast enough for the bottom end to have any to use first because its all up on the head. Dsm have a terrible oil drain back system kiggly has already proven this and that is why he came up with a way to limit oil to the lifters so that most of the oil stays in the bottom end and not starve for oil. But the real culprit is the 3g lifters. You don't have to buy my theory I have been sold since I did it and it works superb! Look at these lifters one on the left is stock one on the right 3g there is a big difference in hole size now multiply that by 16 and then add 8000 revolutions per minute this equals starvation of oil on the bottom end which equals a slow death on the engine. Trust me or not it works and I don't care if anybody chose to do this it benefits me none the less

You are still going to have the restriction of the hole in the rocker arm where the oil actually comes out, so having a bigger hole in the lifter really won't mean more oil coming thru them.

 

[DSM1G90]

You are still going to have the restriction of the hole in the rocker arm where the oil actually comes out, so having a bigger hole in the lifter really won't mean more oil coming thru them.

What I was wonderin' also, where you make/have a hole bigger, it's still going to fill the same due to the amount of flow from the source.

 

[keltalon]

You are still going to have the restriction of the hole in the rocker arm where the oil actually comes out, so having a bigger hole in the lifter really won't mean more oil coming thru them.

I wouldn't think the hole in the rocker is that much of a restriction and then again I have no way of testing that. But I will say this before posting this on the boards I first had to make sure that it worked. I did this mod a year ago and never saw a need to post it because I didn't feel like trying to convince people that this is what you need to do. I was just browsing the boards yesterday and lo and behold I saw where someone posted a question about modifying a stock lifter. I chimed in. people don't have to try this if they feel its a waste of time or worthless. I am not an engineer but over 10yrs of messing with this engine I can say this there's a lot of little mods I have come up with that has improved aspects of my engine most of them I chose not to post just because I have a very unorthodox approach to dsm performance and most of these little mods works as intended. In conclusion I am very happy with the modded lifter

 

[keltalon]

With solids, how do you adjust the lash then, or do you?

The same way lashes are adjusted on a honda b16 engine. You loosen the nut insert a feeler guage, screw the top part of the lifer out then lock the nut back when you reach the proper clearance

 

[WES_393]

With solids, how do you adjust the lash then, or do you?

The good ol' fashion way: Measuring. The Honda guys have been doing it or decades. The process wouldn't be too far off either.

Tech Article: Valve Lash Adjustment - Honda-Tech

 

[keltalon]

The good ol' fashion way: Measuring. The Honda guys have been doing it or decades. The process wouldn't be too far off either.

Tech Article: Valve Lash Adjustment - Honda-Tech

Not to mention there is no issue with lifter tick.

 

[keltalon]

We sell them 89.99 for a set 3G Lifters

Prime example of my point if you look at the description on it says and I qoute "This is a Set of 3G Lifters for the 4G63 DOHC engine. These are a new designed lifter so that more oil can fill the lifter as well as preventing the "lifter tick" that is extremely common on stock lifters."

 

[DSM1G90]

The Honda guys have been doing it or decades

True, did Hondas like this as well along with any other vehicle that has adjustment screws on the rocker arms.

Even the 4G37 ( 1.8L) had a rare Cyclone 12v head option issued where you did lash adjustments. .008 intake and .010 exaust (COLD). Little motor could breathe easier (third valve was mainly for the MCA-JET system) and had a bit more top end power.

Guess, I missed something, or something wasn't mentioned prior .. and that is to change out the hydraulic rockers for manual adjuster rockers when using solid lifters.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

surely if its that bad mitsubishi would not of made revised lifters? i guess they dont think about the 8k revs but has any body opened up a revised lifter? as they could have made the opening bigger but reduced the inner volume to counter act this oiling system?

 

[keltalon]

Guess, I missed something, or something wasn't mentioned prior .. and that is to change out the hydraulic rockers for manual adjuster rockers when using solid lifters.

Its not the rocker that hydraulic its the lifter. solid lifters can be used with stock rockers. They are expensive and most dsmers don't know how to set them up properly which does take some time.

 

[DSM1G90]

Sorry - meant rockers with the adjustment screw for valve lash clearance. Didn't mean rockers themselves were hydraulic. Messed a few words there.

Must be a hidden trick to set the correct gap between rocker and valve for both INT and EXH valves if doing solid lifters, or there isn't any but setting up the lifter correctly is the nifty trick in itself..since you prob still have to collapse them before install so the oil pressure can be built up within them, but holds the setting for proper valve operation.

 

[keltalon]

Must be a hidden trick to set the correct gap between rocker and valve for both INT and EXH valves if doing solid lifters, or there isn't any but setting up the lifter correctly is the nifty trick in itself..since you prob still have to collapse them before install so the oil pressure can be built up within them, but holds the setting for proper valve operation.

Yeah it must be some sort of trick because solid lifter doesn't seem to be that popular with the 4g63. I wonder what lifter shep and kiggly run?

 

[viperlp01]

Yeah it must be some sort of trick because solid lifter doesn't seem to be that popular with the 4g63. I wonder what lifter shep and kiggly run?

They both run 1g factory lifters and with that being said your whole claim stating the the oil is better regulated running a factory modified lifter is false. The oil being feed to the lifters is completely regulated by the HLA regulator. I am sure he would have stated ill effects from running a revised lifter. Testing done by kiggly here(Kiggly Racing - kigglyracing.com) states it does not matter what lifter you run...

I think it is a cool thing to stop the lifter tick though.

 

[keltalon]

They both run 1g factory lifters and with that being said your whole claim stating the the oil is better regulated running a factory modified lifter is false. .

Na bro my claim is dead on. The HLA regulates oil pressure true enough but it takes more oil to pressurize the revised 3g lifter to the pressure limit of the HLA that's my point. You are a vendor who is only concerned about selling your 3g revised lifters and will love to jump on the ban wagon of basers! Who cares the revised 1g lifter works it takes less oil to pressurize which means more oil in the bottom end good part without lifter tick! Use what makes you happy!

 

[WES_393]

Who cares the revised 1g lifter works it takes less oil to pressurize which means more oil in the bottom end good part without lifter tick! Use what makes you happy!

My point is: Just how much oil do you really think the lifters take from the overall oil level? HLA's are constantly adjusting, but these adjustments are thousandths of an inch and only release a drop of oil each time. They aren't constantly deflating and then refilling with every stroke of the cam. We're talking drops of oil per second. It's nothing compared to how much oil is being pumped into the head for cam lubrication.

And even if the HLA's took up a good quantity of oil, you don't drain them every oil change, right? So they are full when you bring your oil level up to the 5 quart mark. The lifters won't suck up anymore oil than they give out, that's just simple physics. Therefore, the oil is at the proper level regardless of how much oil is in the lifters.

This is just how I see it. A 2mm larger lifter just isn't going to make a difference in overall oil level. Our drain back system is phenomenal compared to most other DOHC engines and yet I have never heard of any other platform having issues with too much oil being "trapped" in the head. It just seems silly.

 

[keltalon]

My point is: Just how much oil do you really think the lifters take from the overall oil level? HLA's are constantly adjusting, but these adjustments are thousandths of an inch and only release a drop of oil each time. They aren't constantly deflating and then refilling with every stroke of the cam. We're talking drops of oil per second. It's nothing compared to how much oil is being pumped into the head for cam lubrication.

And even if the HLA's took up a good quantity of oil, you don't drain them every oil change, right? So they are full when you bring your oil level up to the 5 quart mark. The lifters won't suck up anymore oil than they give out, that's just simple physics. Therefore, the oil is at the proper level regardless of how much oil is in the lifters.

This is just how I see it. Either way it seems silly to me. A 2mm larger lifter just isn't going to make a difference in overall oil level.

If it seem silly then why are you even in the conversation? To most destroying a bottom end is not a silly matter! Are you happy with the lifters you are currently running? If so that's all that matters I will post another video a little later and show you just how much oil flows through both lifters there a huge difference. Its not just about pumping up a lifter its also about the amount of oil flowing through the lifter to keep it pumped up times 16.