Modify Stock Lifters Instead of Buying Revised?

[jakvett]

I am starting to get lifter tick on my 99 GST only when it's cold (outside and engine temp), and have read up on the subject. The cheapest revised lifters I can find are on ebay for $100. However, I have unlimited free access to a full machine shop and was wondering if I could modify the stock lifters in order eliminate the tick.

I think I could put the lifters in a lathe, and drill out the top holes to the revised lifter's size. I could then use the lathe to cut the larger groove in the side (if that has any effect on the tick).

It seems like a simple process, but I haven't read about anyone trying it. Does anyone have any experience or see any issues with my plan? Worst comes to worst, the lifters are unusable, and I buy revised lifters.

 

[keltalon]

.

And even if the HLA's took up a good quantity of oil, you don't drain them every oil change, right? So they are full when you bring your oil level up to the 5 quart mark. The lifters won't suck up anymore oil than they give out, that's just simple physics. Therefore, the oil is at the proper level regardless of how much oil is in the lifters.

This is just how I see it. A 2mm larger lifter just isn't going to make a difference in overall oil level. Our drain back system is phenomenal compared to most other DOHC engines and yet I have never heard of any other platform having issues with too much oil being "trapped" in the head. It just seems silly.

I see you went back and edited your post instead of replying to my previous. You are missing the point its not about getting pumped up or pressure . Its about the amount of flow at a given rpm mainly 8000. Now lets address your comment on the "Phenomenal" oil drain back of our engines this is a quotation from kiggly's site about drain back "Oil Starvation at Extended High RPM Use - the 4g63 does a poor job of returning oil to the pan where it needs to be. The oil gets both stacked up in the head and suspended in a slurry in the crankcase. The longer the engine lives at high rpm, the worse the problem becomes" I knew that when I posted that video I would be in for a long day !

 

[Talon96fwd]

Do it!!! I want to see pictures if you can.

 

[WES_393]

I see you went back and edited your post instead of replying to my previous. You are missing the point its not about getting pumped up or pressure . Its about the amount of flow at a given rpm mainly 8000. Now lets address your comment on the "Phenomenal" oil drain back of our engines this is a quotation from kiggly's site about drain back "Oil Starvation at Extended High RPM Use - the 4g63 does a poor job of returning oil to the pan where it needs to be. The oil gets both stacked up in the head and suspended in a slurry in the crankcase. The longer the engine lives at high rpm, the worse the problem becomes" I knew that when I posted that video I would be in for a long day !

First, I edited my post to ad facts, not change my argument. Your the one who is meeting constructive criticism with a minimizing tone. Second, there is no "flow" through a lifter. It takes oil as needed, not as its given. Even if you consider this "flow", its a drop in the pond compared to all those cam journals which spew oil constantly. Third, Kiggly said absolutely nothing about lifters in that quote. He said the head is bad at returning oil (which it's not, a 3sgte head will hold over 1/2 quart before draining). Much more of this oil is the cam journals rather than from the lifters, so I fail to see how a larger lifter will affect overall oil flow. He also mentioned a slurry of oil, but I see no mention of you rushing to install a crank scraper or additional baffles. Which I'm sure Kiggly would love to sell you along with a new HLA regulator...

For the record, I'm not doubting your lifter modification. I'm doubting the claim that revised lifters alone will somehow absorb enough oil to starve the oil pickup.

 

[bryanwheat]

First, I edited my post to ad facts, not change my argument. Your the one who is meeting constructive criticism with a minimizing tone. Second, there is no "flow" through a lifter. It takes oil as needed, not as its given. Even if you consider this "flow", its a drop in the pond compared to all those cam journals which spew oil constantly. Third, Kiggly said absolutely nothing about lifters in that quote. He said the head is bad at returning oil (which it's not, a 3sgte head will hold over 1/2 quart before draining). Much more of this oil is the cam journals rather than from the lifters, so I fail to see how a larger lifter will affect overall oil flow. He also mentioned a slurry of oil, but I see no mention of you rushing to install a crank scraper or additional baffles. Which I'm sure Kiggly would love to sell you along with a new HLA regulator...

For the record, I'm not doubting your lifter modification. I'm doubting the claim that revised lifters alone will somehow absorb enough oil to starve the oil pickup.

The lifter actually is constantly flowing oil thru it. Pull the oil cap and watch what happens when the engine is running. Oil goes thru the lifter, out the hole in the top and thru the hole in the rocker, which is then sprayed on the roller part of the rocker. Most vehicles with hydraulic lifters work this way. As i said earlier, the smaller hole in the rocker will limit how much oil is going thru the lifter though. The hole is about the same size as the hole in a 1g lifter, so even if you run the revised lifters, the flow will remain pretty much the same. The reason that the lifters tick has little to do with the size of the hole in the top. The tick because they get gummed up on the inside. The theory with the bigger hole is that any small particles will be flushed out easier and less likely to gum up the lifter. If your lifters are ticking than it is real easy to pull them out, and soak them in diesel fuel for a day or 2 than flush them with clean diesel. They will work as well as a brand new set of lifters. I have never bought a new set of lifters for these engines. I clean and re-use them only.

 

[keltalon]

The lifter actually is constantly flowing oil thru it. Pull the oil cap and watch what happens when the engine is running. Oil goes thru the lifter, out the hole in the top and thru the hole in the rocker, which is then sprayed on the roller part of the rocker. Most vehicles with hydraulic lifters work this way. As i said earlier, the smaller hole in the rocker will limit how much oil is going thru the lifter though. The hole is about the same size as the hole in a 1g lifter, so even if you run the revised lifters, the flow will remain pretty much the same. The reason that the lifters tick has little to do with the size of the hole in the top. The tick because they get gummed up on the inside. The theory with the bigger hole is that any small particles will be flushed out easier and less likely to gum up the lifter. If your lifters are ticking than it is real easy to pull them out, and soak them in diesel fuel for a day or 2 than flush them with clean diesel. They will work as well as a brand new set of lifters. I have never bought a new set of lifters for these engines. I clean and re-use them only.

Bryan I have always had much respect for your input I will post video today. Thanks!

 

[viperlp01]

I don't care if I sell a set of 3g lifters or not .. I don't make ANY money on them because of Ebay ect. Lets put it this way. I have never lost an engine because my lifters had to much oil in them. They use a fraction of a quart of oil. Kigglys HLA lowers the oil flow to the head in every circumstance disregarding any lifter used.

Also the head is designed with an oil bypass hole. When the lifter reaches its designed volume and pressure limit it leaks excess oil out of the bypass hole. So regardless of what lifter you use you must regulate the pressure/volume in the rails. Ok it works but without any testing why claim that it is better. If you can show results like Kiggly did then I am bow down and believe you but it just isn't possible.

 

[keltalon]

Also the head is designed with an oil bypass hole. When the lifter reaches its designed volume and pressure limit it leaks excess oil out of the bypass hole. .

Yeah "reaches its desgned volume and pressure limit" it does leaks oil out of the bypass hole but you leaving out an important fact the 3g lifters leaks out more than the head can drain back in the upper rpm to the bottom end which is why the 1g lifter works flawless for me in helping the bottom end keep a good supply of oil

 

[keltalon]

Okay here is the proof The modified 1g lifter is the way to go IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtSjH4XM_vo

 

[DSM1G90]

Then, when they get gummed up inside, the head of the lifter is smaking itself to death aginst the rocker and flattening that head of the lifter.

Found that out doing a lifter replacement on a 1.8 a couple of years ago with two lifters damaged.

Almost looks like routine oil changes are the simple cures to prevent the gumming up.

But, wonder if the "Adding a quart of ATF in the oil and letting this mix swish around for 15minutes before the oil change" would help this any...to rid of any gum build up in the lifters.

-DSM

 

[1qkfwd]

Just to clear up a few things, the kiggly HLA doesnt lower pressure. It is design to hold pressure to a constant. If you've ever looked at one and how its designed its no waste of money and every dsm should have one.

3G revised lifters are usually not a good idea on any high reving 4g engine. They do bleed quicker than the 2G and 1G lifter. A 3G lifter in high rpm engines will bleed down to fast and cause the valves not to open all the way. A 2mm difference may not seem like a whole lot, but now take that number and multiply it by 16. It does add up fast. A good compromise is the 2G lifter since it has almost a 3G lifter size bore to about halfway down the lifter then it goes down to a 1G size at the base. I always run 1G lifters and dont really have any complaints.

 

[keltalon]

Just to clear up a few things, the kiggly HLA doesnt lower pressure. It is design to hold pressure to a constant. If you've ever looked at one and how its designed its no waste of money and every dsm should have one.

3G revised lifters are usually not a good idea on any high reving 4g engine. They do bleed quicker than the 2G and 1G lifter. A 3G lifter in high rpm engines will bleed down to fast and cause the valves not to open all the way. A 2mm difference may not seem like a whole lot, but now take that number and multiply it by 16. It does add up fast. A good compromise is the 2G lifter since it has almost a 3G lifter size bore to about halfway down the lifter then it goes down to a 1G size at the base. I always run 1G lifters and dont really have any complaints.

I bought one for my new set up kiggly HLA and 1g lifters win win in my book

 

[1qkfwd]

That is the best combo if you have 16 good lifters. I never hear a little tick over my loud exhaust anyways. But street car and low rpms 3G lifters are the way to go.

 

[ceedawg]

Okay here is the proof The modified 1g lifter is the way to go IMO

Proof dsm1g lifter better than 3g - YouTube

Kel Kels telling how its done! I have to check and see which lifters I have because I think I put 2G lifters(better than the 3g) in my 1g head ,if so I am going back to the 1g lifters.

When are you gonna get your Wiseman badge!!!!!!!!

 

[tkelly27]

The video with the WD40 is very informative. It shows the problems with the 3g liftrrs and how the followers and cam lobes are oiled. I could see a lot of oil coming out of the 3g units at high revs. I'm happy I have a whole pile of 1g lifters and a lathe!

 

[Flatout_98]

Very cool! Thanks for the video.

 

[keltalon]

Kel When are you gonna get your Wiseman badge!!!!!!!!

Ceedawg- Titles are just that Titles I just like helping when I can

 

[DSM1G90]

Do agree: Very informative along with being interesting.

Goes to show that how mandatory oil changes are definitely needed to be in place to prevent gum and varnish buildup in the lifters.

 

[ed1380]

I wouldn't think the hole in the rocker is that much of a restriction and then again I have no way of testing that. But I will say this before posting this on the boards I first had to make sure that it worked. I did this mod a year ago and never saw a need to post it because I didn't feel like trying to convince people that this is what you need to do. I was just browsing the boards yesterday and lo and behold I saw where someone posted a question about modifying a stock lifter. I chimed in. people don't have to try this if they feel its a waste of time or worthless. I am not an engineer but over 10yrs of messing with this engine I can say this there's a lot of little mods I have come up with that has improved aspects of my engine most of them I chose not to post just because I have a very unorthodox approach to dsm performance and most of these little mods works as intended. In conclusion I am very happy with the modded lifter

I need to find some free time and hang out with you