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[DSMraver]

Grant, I realize that forged pistons aren't necessary in an OEM application (depending on vehicle-power application and other factors). With pistons made out of stronger materials, maybe the squirters wouldn't be an absolute OEM requirement.

My point is that the OEM used piston squirters with their choice of piston, which wasn't forged. Can you agree with me that the stock pistons would be more sensitive to heat than a forged one would? I do realize that forged pistons aren't a requirement for a 200hp turbo motor, but for our application it changes things quite a bit.

 

[Suparata]

John
I believe you made your point already so don’t try to be a “winner” here.
You made your choice as far as how to have your engine setup and trying to prove that you made the right choice is pointless. It would however be interesting to name the “several high-hp long-time engine builders” that advised you against using squirters just so we don’t think they build “domestic” engines.

You just can’t seem to understand that oil jets are not only “cooling” pistons and you also believe that you need to have all sorts of gadgets to “keep oil OFF-THE-CRANK”. You were told that it might not be correct what you are thinking yet you refuse to believe that. It is funny how you want to believe some things that “jive” with what you did and nothing else.

Like I said you THINK you know what and how but you are not really posting “your findings” because they are just some things you’ve heard. Again you made your point so move on.

 

[GTM]

...
It would however be interesting to name the “several high-hp long-time engine builders” that advised you against using squirters just so we don’t think they build “domestic” engines.
...
Like I said you THINK you know what and how but you are not really posting “your findings” because they are just some things you’ve heard. Again you made your point so move on.

A pet-peeve of yours too eh? It has taken Detroit decades to put together something that reliably will produce 1hp /cu in and still get 20+ mpg. I find so many of these self-appointed experts passing out un-supported claims when the average age of staff is 25. That's why I suggested going to the Mfg sites and not the local speed shop who may have some local history but doesn't employ an engineering department.

That certainly a pet-peeve of mine passing off urban legends/hearsay provided by the local speed shops as factual when a little bit of homework research can present a meaningful supporting argument. It would be be sheer folly for someone to think they can omit an oiling system based on what we have read here which must be considered hearsay.

Anytime you put your name behind something you have the potential to influence others who then may take additional liberties with drastic costly consequences and no accountability. I'm not trying to be provocative or contrary but to point out the responsibility that must come when boldly making some statement as if it came from a credentialed source and then can't back it up.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[DarkWolf29805]

Ok, I am not claiming I know it all but I am a certified machanic with alot of time involved in the 4g64 motors. I own 4 mightymax pickups. All but one of them have a 4g64 motor not the g4cs. Also they are all 6 bolts. I had no trouble mating the 4g63 head to the 4g64 block other then pluging a couple of oil drain ports. The 4g63 Tranny bolts right up to it and also the Mighty Max tranny bolts right up to the 4g63. I am currently building a 4g63 out of a 90 Laser RS to go into one of my Mighty Max's. The hardest part about this swap is that the throttlebody has to be relocated to the otherside of the intake so the motor will mount right.When I get the swap done I will post some pics and Dyno records for all to see. Well that is just my 2 cents.

 

[DSM Loki]

ok, after reading all 7 pages i am now more lost than i was before.
i'm entertaining the idea of making a stroker engine, not sure if i was 2.3 or 2.4 yet. depends on price.

to do the 2.4 with the 63 block i need it bored .040" over? not a problem.
exactly what crank do i need, from what car?
exactly what rods do i need?
exactly what pistons do i need.
can i use oem timing belt if i make it a 2.3?
exactly what has to be done to make my 4g63 into a 2.3L stroker 4g63 and what for a 2.4 4g63 stroker?
and yes i'm turbo.
would the 14b be alright for a while? will my car make more power than before even with just the 14b for now?
enlighten me.
should i just try to find a g4cs block and crank and buy parts, hand everything to the machinist and tell him to make it work?
i'd like to get something where all the parts bolt up easily and can still use my oem 90 fwd tranny.

 

[MNGSX]

If you want the most performance and longevity.

1. Run oil squirters. Turbo diesels with stock forged parts have been running them for decades.

2. Run low tension rings and a vaccum pump... search...

You will have happy pistons, lubed wrist pins and cylinder walls yet have very good oil control and minimal windage. Its the BEST way to do it.

 

[DSMraver]

John
I believe you made your point already so don’t try to be a “winner” here.
You made your choice as far as how to have your engine setup and trying to prove that you made the right choice is pointless. It would however be interesting to name the “several high-hp long-time engine builders” that advised you against using squirters just so we don’t think they build “domestic” engines.

You just can’t seem to understand that oil jets are not only “cooling” pistons and you also believe that you need to have all sorts of gadgets to “keep oil OFF-THE-CRANK”. You were told that it might not be correct what you are thinking yet you refuse to believe that. It is funny how you want to believe some things that “jive” with what you did and nothing else.

Like I said you THINK you know what and how but you are not really posting “your findings” because they are just some things you’ve heard. Again you made your point so move on.

That's fine, I'm conceeding the oil-jet debate, as a matter of fact, I'll probably be using them in my new motor due to some research I did as a result of this discussion.

As for "gadgets" to keep oil off the crank... If you think for one second, that crank scrapers and windage trays (both have the same goal, mind you) aren't beneficial, you're delusional. Look at *any* race motor, and tell me that they don't work, and don't have a place on a high-hp motor. http://www.crank-scrapers.com/ You can "tell me I'm not correct", but I'll rely on OEM and racing engine development info for my decisions.

No-one "needs" a crank scraper, or a windage tray, but for the extra high-rpm power, I'll take one, thank you very much. It's funny that you argue *for* oil-jets (which add zero power), and against crank scrapers, and "devices that keep oil off the crank". I don't understand? I'm just as open-minded as the next guy, but where is your basis for this?

FYI: One of my sources for the oil-jet info was VT Competition Engineering. www.vtengines.com. They specialize in Boosted Modular V8's, and have done quite a bit of import work.

 

[1fastlaser]

I just got done my g4cs,and i did everything that was talked about,i got the cam gears and timing belt...94 galant gs,all went on good.And did everything else off my 2.0

well if you use your crank plate with the notch off the 2.0 90-92 the timing WILL be off.You need the 2.4 plate.or you can just set it to 93-94 timing seen in the haynes mistu eclipse manual.I did that and almost killed a head,timing was on but not on for that motor

 

[huafist]

ok, after reading all 7 pages i am now more lost than i was before.
i'm entertaining the idea of making a stroker engine, not sure if i was 2.3 or 2.4 yet. depends on price.

to do the 2.4 with the 63 block i need it bored .040" over? not a problem.
exactly what crank do i need, from what car?
exactly what rods do i need?
exactly what pistons do i need.
can i use oem timing belt if i make it a 2.3?
exactly what has to be done to make my 4g63 into a 2.3L stroker 4g63 and what for a 2.4 4g63 stroker?
and yes i'm turbo.
would the 14b be alright for a while? will my car make more power than before even with just the 14b for now?
enlighten me.
should i just try to find a g4cs block and crank and buy parts, hand everything to the machinist and tell him to make it work?
i'd like to get something where all the parts bolt up easily and can still use my oem 90 fwd tranny.

If you build a stroked 4G63 (2.3L), you'll need your G63 block, a 4G64 crank, 1G rods, and a set of "stroker" pistons (wrist pin moved up 6mm to compensate for deck height). If you do the 2.3 you can use your OEM 2.0L timing belt and everything else because it's the same block.

The primary reason for building one of these engines the primary benefit from one of these engines is your turbo spools faster and the engine produces more torque.
IMHO, it's less trouble and effort to build a 2.4L hybrid engine than a stroker.

Hope this helps.

 

[MNGSX]

Its more trouble. Cam timing marks and head gasket to DOHC head matching, longer TB etc...

The stroker pistons weight less and rock less minimizing cylinder wear as compaired to a hybrid.

 

[huafist]

Its more trouble. Cam timing marks and head gasket to DOHC head matching, longer TB etc...

The stroker pistons weight less and rock less minimizing cylinder wear as compaired to a hybrid.

How can it be more trouble? Cams with proper timing marks, headgasket, Timing Belt, etc are all OEM parts direct from Satan?
I can see the logic in stroker pistons weighing less (bore is slightly smaller, less mass), but how exactly do they rock less when the wrist pin is moved further up into the piston?

 

[MNGSX]

You can get stroker pistons in the same bore size.

They are lighter because of the pin location change.

Move the pin closer to the crown and you dont need as long of a skirt.

Move the pin higher and they rock less..

 

[huafist]

You can get stroker pistons in the same bore size.

They are lighter because of the pin location change.

Move the pin closer to the crown and you dont need as long of a skirt.

Move the pin higher and they rock less..

Makes sense. Thanks.

 

[H1PNOT1C GS-T]

Ok, I'm posting this up for a friend of mine because we are trying to find out a little bit more information about the swap before we buy anything. His car is a 97 GS-T, and the wrist pin broke on cylinder 1 so we are contemplating the stroker build.

1.) High HP goals are really a necessity. We are looking for a little more driveability as far as low end goes. What is the redline with this combination? Equal to the 4G63 or less?

2.) I've noticed the mention of high compression on the stock internals. Is there any way to run a thicker aftermarket headgasket to lower compression or are the stock pistons just that weak? This car may see nothing more than a simple big 16g.

3.) 2G head a direct bolt on or is a 1G head needed instead? I never saw mention of the 2g head being used. We are trying to use as many of the original parts as possible to cut down on cost for the moment since his father is helping pay for the damage since it came as such a surprise.

I think that is all I need to know. Thanks

Zach

 

[Hooah]

so my fp2's will be here approx friday and i didnt know about the fp3s i plan on running a g4cs will the cams be cool with it? i dont see why not but what are the benifits of the fp3's with a stroked motor?

 

[peregrine]

so my fp2's will be here approx friday and i didnt know about the fp3s i plan on running a g4cs will the cams be cool with it? i dont see why not but what are the benifits of the fp3's with a stroked motor?

most likely slightly higher lift and duration. i would asume this since you need to upgrade your springs with the fp3&4's.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Yes, the valvetrain MUST be upgraded with the FP3's. It might be possible to shim the Crowers to get enough seat pressure to work, but who knows for how long. Looking at the specs, it seems that Ferrea valvesprings/retainers are the only ones that don't require shimming that will actually work with the FP3's.

 

[AL92]

Ok read thru the whole thread.My current 7 bolt is dead.I want a stroker.I want to know the reilablity of these 6 bolt 2.4 and also from people running 6 bolt 2.3s.
You can email me your opinions if you have a 2.3 to keep this thread on the 2.4s.

And still confused.What exact year has these 2.4 6bolts and what model.I plan on using a 2g head .Is that ok?

And what is the price and part numbers of a block and crank new? Are they mits part numbers or hyundai part numbers.Why buy a whole engine if you don't use most of it and if you have to turn the crank or whatever does that make it weaker by removing some factory hardening.I wam building for big power a fp 3065 likely.

Are these cars really common in junkyards .I haven't started phoning around yet.I live in a city of couple hundred thousand.

And I have only heard of a couple of 7 bolt 4g64 engines crankwalking.Does anyone have one and are they in fact doing it.The 7 bolt 4g64 is an even easier swap into my 2g.

 

[AL92]

Ok phoned around.Found two 89 sonata 2.4 engines.One has like 40000 miles on it or 24,000 if that 40000 was km not miles I live in canada its metric up here.
The other one has 220,000km or around 110,000 miles.One is about 350 US and the other one is about 225 US.Is there any advantage to paying more for the low mileage one ?I am only using the block and crank right?Can this crank be turned thought read you can't turn it? So what to do.Which to buy and also think buying a 6 bolt for hopefully a couple hundred cheap to strip parts off to put on the 6 bolt 2.4.Can you use 2g timing stuff on the 2.4 6 bolt? I hear you can't use timing tensioner tool with 1g tensioner on the 6 bolts?

Other option is to stroker the 2.0 6 bolt.But seems would be a bit farther ahead with the 6 bolt 2.4.Why do I want to use the 2.4 6 bolt again over the 2.0 punched to 2.3?

And does the oil pan off the 2.4 work in my 2g talon?The 2.0 has no oilpan on it otherwise its complete.

 

[chris mitsuman]

Great info...Subscribing to thread.

 

[2.4 turbo Hyped]

Just surprised to see a thread I started long ago is still going strong. I sold my laser 4 months ago and have moved up into a dodge stealth rt tt. Seems to be the same car with 2 more pistons, an extra turbo and lots of luxury, best car I have ever owned. Have fun with the dsms, they are rockets!

 

[ezspoolin]

ok i don't care about alot of this stuff i have just a few SIMPLE questions

ok all i want is forged pistons and rods where can i get these, i don't need a bigger bore just stock, and still using stock dohc head with 63 cams

with just those mods and a 20g and on pump gas what kind of #'s can i run? (with proper tunning of course)

 

[gixrman]

ok i don't care about alot of this stuff i have just a few SIMPLE questions

ok all i want is forged pistons and rods where can i get these, i don't need a bigger bore just stock, and still using stock dohc head with 63 cams

with just those mods and a 20g and on pump gas what kind of #'s can i run? (with proper tunning of course)

Heres a SIMPLE answer running a 20g you'll never need forged pistons and rods unless your running nitrious, race gas. Get a set of evo8 pistons and 1g rods thats all you need.

The #'s you are looking for all depend on too many variables in your setup, look at peoples timeslips that run a 20g to get an idea of what is possible with your setup.

 

[ezspoolin]

what?
the evo 8 pistons? won't those give me like an 11.1 compression ratio?

 

[gixrman]

No there 8:8:1, where are you getting 11:1?