Lock Tight

[ZABMANN]

My teachers told me in my automechanics class to put locktight on my flywheel. So I did, and 300 miles down the road the bolts fell out WTF I tightened them as tight as you should but now I am hearing that I used the wrong locktight? The one I used was blue and I heard I should have used red. Is it true that lock tight is rated by color and that I should have used the red one?

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

Was the crush shim reinstalled? I have never used locktite but you bet I reinstalled the crush shim.

 

[ZABMANN]

Was the crush shim reinstalled? I have never used locktite but you bet I reinstalled the crush shim.

Is that the metal panal under the block sealing the open area to get to the flywheel?

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

No. That would be the inspection panel.

I am referring to the round piece of metal that was under your flywheel bolts when they were removed. It retains tension on the bolts so they don't back out due to vibration. Most DSM bolts have integrated lock washers or even standard washers that retain tension to do this but flywheel bolts do not have integrated crush washers so you HAVE to reinstall that round piece that has the six holes in it.

 

[snowborder714]

Was the crush shim reinstalled? I have never used locktite but you bet I reinstalled the crush shim.

Yes, you should have use a specific version of red loctite, Loctite 266 Threadlocker.

The blue bottles are just generic threadlocker. They are used on anything that is non-critical as they are not as strong. The red hold better and typically require heat or a lot of force to remove.

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

Okay. I reviewed the FSM for the Spyder. They do not have the shim, the FSM does indeed state to use a threadlocking compound.

The FSM for 1g's does not state to use a threadlocking compound however.

I also called my father who is a 20 year ASE Platinum veteran wrench that spent the last 10 at a Mitsu/Dodge dealer. We discussed this and he explained that yes some vehicles are threadlocked and others are not.

I personally have never used threadlocker but I have always had cars that had the shim and I have never had a problem with the bolts backing out.

Whether I am wrong or not about the shim, the FSM does state to use 3M Stud locking 4170 or equivalent assuming you have the 2.4. I did not look at the requirements for the other possible engines for the Spyder.

I apologize for the bad information.

 

[ZABMANN]

Thanks for all the help. Now I know what to do.

 

[jrohner]

Something was wrong if the bolts fell out -- locktite or not.

The red locktite does hold a lot better than the blue, just don't use a lot of it for something that threads into aluminum (tranny or head), because the threads may come out with it when you try take the bolts back out.

 

[Defiant]

Oh, holy crap, look over there! It's the internet!!

Loctite Consumer Retail Products | Threadlockers

 

[alansupra94]

Something was wrong if the bolts fell out -- locktite or not.

The red locktite does hold a lot better than the blue, just don't use a lot of it for something that threads into aluminum (tranny or head), because the threads may come out with it when you try take the bolts back out.

For the love of God, don't tell him to use the red one! Jesus that stuff stays there permanently!

Blue is the best if you want good holding BUT want to be able to remove it eventually. Red stuff is like putting JB Weld on the bolt. No joke ask me how I know.

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

No joke ask me how I know.

Because you have broken bolts that you used the red on while to remove them? I have been told this but have no experience with the stuff.

 

[djalogik]

what torque did you use on the bolts?

 

[snowborder714]

For the love of God, don't tell him to use the red one! Jesus that stuff stays there permanently!

Blue is the best if you want good holding BUT want to be able to remove it eventually. Red stuff is like putting JB Weld on the bolt. No joke ask me how I know.

It depends on your application. For the flywheel bolts, I would not use blue.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

If you didn't torque them properly (star pattern in 20ftlb increments), you're bolts are guaranteed to back out. I used blue because I plan on taking off my flywheel at some point in the future.

 

[alansupra94]

It depends on your application. For the flywheel bolts, I would not use blue.

True, but I was referring to mostly engine components. Even for that I wouldn't use red, I would find something better or more recommended.

 

[DougR]

The main reason SO many people have sutch a hard time with RED. Is they use TO DAMN MUTCH of it..
I see this daily at my machine shop, ppl just squirt a ton on threads and think it will be ok.. It wont. It sucks to have to drill and tap shit cause some joker used half the tube of red on a bolt.

You dont need to Cover the entire lenght of threads... A simple drop the size of a pencil lead will work just fine and WILL come apart when needed!

The small drop Will end up wrapped around the bolt OD, A simple drop Will cover atleast 3 or 4 grooves. This is more then enough for a flywheel bolt torqued properly. Just put it at the tip of the bolt not up in the middle of the threads.. This will enshure the red is dispersed evenly along the lenght of the bolt.


Err sorry for the rant. Red locktite is a pet peve of mine...

GL with your problem, I know I have had numerous flex and fly wheel bolts back out.. Lemme tell ya they make one HELL of a noise when they come loose and rattle around a torque converter. My pal in the pass seat, damn near jumped out of my truck at 50mph! scared the livin BEEEEP outta both of us..

 

[snowborder714]

^ Good call. People tend to think that more is better and it's not.

True, but I was referring to mostly engine components. Even for that I wouldn't use red, I would find something better or more recommended.

From everything I've read, red loctite is recommended for flywheel bolts specifically.

 

[alansupra94]

The main reason SO many people have sutch a hard time with RED. Is they use TO DAMN MUTCH of it..
I see this daily at my machine shop, ppl just squirt a ton on threads and think it will be ok.. It wont. It sucks to have to drill and tap shit cause some joker used half the tube of red on a bolt.

You dont need to Cover the entire lenght of threads... A simple drop the size of a pencil lead will work just fine and WILL come apart when needed!

The small drop Will end up wrapped around the bolt OD, A simple drop Will cover atleast 3 or 4 grooves. This is more then enough for a flywheel bolt torqued properly. Just put it at the tip of the bolt not up in the middle of the threads.. This will enshure the red is dispersed evenly along the lenght of the bolt.


Err sorry for the rant. Red locktite is a pet peve of mine...

GL with your problem, I know I have had numerous flex and fly wheel bolts back out.. Lemme tell ya they make one HELL of a noise when they come loose and rattle around a torque converter. My pal in the pass seat, damn near jumped out of my truck at 50mph! scared the livin BEEEEP outta both of us..

Touche....people do over use it. I been using this other locking liquid that they sell at local autoparts store.

 

[vanilla gorilla]

Wow. Almost makes me second guess my work, , nah.
I've never used loctite on my flywheel bolts. IIRC, my bolts didnt have any washers either. Because when I tourqed them down, I remember the bolts were digging into the aluminum on the flywheel face. I did torque them to spec though. Its been 5k miles, with no problems, so.

 

[kahl23]

To the original poster, please PLEASE tell me you used a torque wrench tightening these bolts. Loctite is good and I personally use it every time I install a flywheel (and on any other high vibration bolts, like the rear engine mounts), but nothing is better than properly torquing bolts.

 

[ZABMANN]

what torque did you use on the bolts?

It was my first time doing a motor swap and I was doing it in my vocational class and my teachers didnt tell me anthing about torquing. All they told me was to make sure they are tight. So I tightened them as tight as I could.

My teachers completely screwed me with this. My car has been out of commision for the past 7 months for a damn motor swap and I dont have the money for a shop to do it. After the bolts came loose i got a shop to fix the bolts for me but even after that there has been a knocking when the motor hits around 4k RPM and when the car starts. I have no clue what to do and the shop wants $550 to pull the tranny and check it out when they have no clue what it could be.

 

[talon_swift7834]

Another helpful trick would be to use RTV on any bolts you don't want to come out. RTV used with proper torque will hold anything for you and allow you to remove the bolt easily. It's a trick used by the GT and Prototype series car teams as well as some of the stock car guys.

 

[ZABMANN]

Yeah, if I knew to do that I would have. I just don't think that I was being tought the right way.

 

[snowborder714]

That all depends on what bolts you're talking about. You obviously don't want to use RTV on a bolt that goes into, say, an oil galley. Then if some of that RTV breaks off, it could cause some damage.

I don't think I have ever used RTV on a bolt though. I either use threadlocker or thread sealant.

Yeah, if I knew to do that I would have. I just don't think that I was being tought the right way.

I would say your teachers sound pretty bad if they haven't taught you about torque specs.

 

[jen_cairo]

Another helpful trick would be to use RTV on any bolts you don't want to come out. RTV used with proper torque will hold anything for you and allow you to remove the bolt easily. It's a trick used by the GT and Prototype series car teams as well as some of the stock car guys.

no to jack anyone tread but is there any specific kind of RTV?