Lets see some custom air ducting

[96ETT]

Hey quick q please Evo3Codriver,

The idea which pressure builds in the bay seems plausible so without cutting the hood, would adding washers to the hood support brackets help let hot air out and new air in through FMIC? In theory yes but does something like this make a noticeable improvement, or am I better off with air exiting through the bottom of the bay toward road

Thanks I've been considering this idea a while now

Idk if this helps but back in the day the hot rodders use to take the back hood seal out to let hot air escape. I wasn't around back then so i don't know how well it worked, but I know multiple people that did it.

 

[LandoAWD]

Hey quick q please Evo3Codriver,

The idea which pressure builds in the bay seems plausible so without cutting the hood, would adding washers to the hood support brackets help let hot air out and new air in through FMIC? In theory yes but does something like this make a noticeable improvement, or am I better off with air exiting through the bottom of the bay toward road

Thanks I've been considering this idea a while now

Idk if this helps but back in the day the hot rodders use to take the back hood seal out to let hot air escape. I wasn't around back then so i don't know how well it worked, but I know multiple people that did it.

Cowl. Opposite of what you're intending it to do. Well covered on the forum.

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Hey quick q please Evo3Codriver,

The idea which pressure builds in the bay seems plausible so without cutting the hood, would adding washers to the hood support brackets help let hot air out and new air in through FMIC? In theory yes but does something like this make a noticeable improvement, or am I better off with air exiting through the bottom of the bay toward road

It helps. Done it to rallycars, roadracecars and our drifttruck.

Better to go out top. Heat rises so will allow heat to escape after you park so less time your parts that fatigue by heat (timing belt, hoses, engine mounts) are cooking. Have done it to many cars. Just don't raise it enough to be ugly. Some cars/trucks (MazdaSpeedy3) you can remove the wiper cowl and it creates opening for air to pass out behind hood.

Air exiting out the bottom of your engine compartment creates more air pressure under the car so less traction w/ road. Air being pushed up is downforce. Air being trapped in engine compartment is drag just like driving down road w/ metal parachute.

The kidney vents I used on my DSM are from Road Race Engineering's partner company CarbonTrix. Not a hardware store and I think a vendor on here so good to support them. They have pics on their website of other carbon fiber vents and scoops installed on DSMs.

 

[eclipsh]

Evo3, not to doubt your experience but isn't opening the rear of the hood a bad thing? It is a high pressure zone on most cars, not a low pressure zone. That is part of why you can have the cabin air intake there. Ever notice the air flowing into the cabin from your vents when cruising with the cabin fan off? I'm pretty sure it is why the vents are located there. A low pressure zone at that point would suck air OUT of the cabin. If in doubt try the taped on yarn trick. Unless I miss my mark, the hot rods do it as a cheap cowl induction method. They're trying to push cool air from that high pressure zone back into their air filter sitting on top of the carb.

Before doing any venting of the hood I'd go through and yarn it up, see what the flows are and go from there. After adding one vent I'd do it again and see what has changed.

That said, I'd love to see the yarn trick done on your hood to see what the air flow is like.

 

[Pipnorcali]

Evo3Codriver your dating yourself nobody under 40 has owned a lancia..haha

 

[nek]

Yay, plus 50 horsepower for ducting....

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Evo3, not to doubt your experience but isn't opening the rear of the hood a bad thing? .

When McLaren and AMG stuffed a race motor into a AMG Benz, they thought it was such a great idea they also added fender vents also.

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That said, I'd love to see the yarn trick done on your hood to see what the air flow is like.

I know what its like from he steam-flow after driving thru a carwash in the winter. I gobble air into the engine compartment w/ my hacked bumper cover. Plenty of pressure in my engine compartment to release the hotter temps out the top.

Don't think anyone has touched on this yet. The best duct to have is just a sheet of material the doesn't absorb much heat (carbon fiber if you have $, plastic if you don't) to seperate your air filter from the rest of the engine compartment.

 

[LandoAWD]

I'm running sealed "mostly" setup with a fiberglass shield (aftermarket) and plastic ducting (OEM) on the new platform and OBDII shows IATs staying lower. Agreed with the materials sentiment.

 

[nek]

People, quick heat transfer lesson, AIR IS A FLUID. Wow I know, take a step back, let it sink in. Now let's move on.

Ducting is always a good idea because it will increase the efficiency of each heat transfer system, ie coolant, intercooler, oil cooler. You don't have to wait until you are on the side of the road because your car overheated to add some ducting. Just because you don't have a problem yet, doesn't mean you can't do it anyway. Anyone heard of preventative maintenance?

Thanks for the lesson sir.
Adding ducting behind your ic increases resistance which, if anything, reduces flow through the intercooler.
As I said before, no point on doing ducting unless you are overheating or racecar.
Plenty of people run ic, ac, rad with no issues.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Thanks for the lesson sir.
Adding ducting behind your ic increases resistance which, if anything, reduces flow through the intercooler.
As I said before, no point on doing ducting unless you are overheating or racecar.
Plenty of people run ic, ac, rad with no issues.

Not entirely true.

Our cars take start to take out timing above a certain water temperature, and less timming means less power. Also, if you can better duct your IC, you will have lower IATs. Lower IAT = more power.

There is more to consider than just resistance. Air velocity, and pressure also determine how well your intercooler/radiator cool. Theres more to the equation than just increaseing or decreasing fluid resistance behind the IC

 

[Tiki2777]

Yay, plus 50 horsepower for ducting....

Hey, you can get horsepower if you throw snowballs at a car's intercooler when its on the dyno .... becuz racecar #### science .

I wish i could find the video on youtube for this evo that did it. (they packed the bumper with snow)

Its like a supa cryo spraya!

(this thread...., Lando just tanks kiddies)

 

[rEclipserGST]

Thanks for the lesson sir.
Adding ducting behind your ic increases resistance which, if anything, reduces flow through the intercooler.
As I said before, no point on doing ducting unless you are overheating or racecar.
Plenty of people run ic, ac, rad with no issues.

Stop it sooner than later please. I have only an a/c condenser behind my fmic & then the ebay radiator. The ducting I have or "weather stripping" is to completely seal it off.

There are hot pipes & cold pipes on a fmic for a reason. Hence why I wrapped my hot pipes and heat shielded my 2g mani. Not wrapping it. I was around 4 years old when you took that cool picture .

I hope a little new information has blessed the world in those last 20 years.

P.S. this is my daily driver.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Here's my ducting. Pictures taken at various phases last year and so don't get confused with how things seem out of order.

1st pic is with the duct work and fmic removed. Looks like everyone else's radiator cross support basically.

2nd pic is with the duct work in place.

3rd pic of course shows the fmic installed. What's confusing here is that there's nothing around the bottom and sides. My bumper cover has that portion of the mouth, and I seal all edges with rubber seals so as much as possible to create a closed seal against the ductwork and fmic. Not shown is that I also use aluminum tape to seal all the air gaps for the ductwork as much as possible.

4th pic is everything together. There's an airflow director in the mouth to redirect some airflow to the path above the fmic. Again, did this because Andrew does it Sorry you can see the black rubber seals but well, blame the paint and lighting.

One thing to note is I leave an airflow path above the fmic so that there is some unrestricted airflow to the radiator. I did this based solely on the fact that it's what Andrew Brilliant did and he told me his testing proved it necessary to maintain adequate cooling. Something to keep in mind.

I'll eventually completely re-do this and lose the radiator cross support when I have the ability to tow my car. Reason is that right now I need to drive it to/from the race tracks and so I need a/c, and so I just left the radiator support in place since it already nicely holds the a/c condensor.

 

[bmoha7321]

I did ducting similar to that on my other car. Very nice sir!

 

[nek]

Not entirely true.

Our cars take start to take out timing above a certain water temperature, and less timming means less power. Also, if you can better duct your IC, you will have lower IATs. Lower IAT = more power.

There is more to consider than just resistance. Air velocity, and pressure also determine how well your intercooler/radiator cool. Theres more to the equation than just increaseing or decreasing fluid resistance behind the IC

Our cars take timing 1*@206 and 2*@225 or somewhere around there. Operating temp is 185-205 so I consider overheating anything above that.
Lower IAT is a good thing as well. I think that ducting the could help that but not as much as creating a cold air box around the intake. Forcing air from the bumper to the filter is the best way to drop IAT. Also with the air running right past the hotside of the turbo and coolant running through the tb, its really hard to get a big change in the intake temps.
I agree with you about pressure and velocity, but the increase of resistance also increases pressure because less air can escape around the radiator. Air velocity you dont have much control over.

Stop it sooner than later please. I have only an a/c condenser behind my fmic & then the ebay radiator. The ducting I have or "weather stripping" is to completely seal it off.

There are hot pipes & cold pipes on a fmic for a reason. Hence why I wrapped my hot pipes and heat shielded my 2g mani. Not wrapping it. I was around 4 years old when you took that cool picture .

I hope a little new information has blessed the world in those last 20 years.

P.S. this is my daily driver.

This post went completely over my head. What picture are you talking about?

 

[mattasi]

Does anyone have any links for the front bumper cutouts, like the green gsx in the first pic of the thread? I want to see how other have went about this.

 

[LandoAWD]

There's no less than 3 threads on here.

 

[NHerron]

It helps. Done it to rallycars, roadracecars and our drifttruck.

Better to go out top. Heat rises so will allow heat to escape after you park so less time your parts that fatigue by heat (timing belt, hoses, engine mounts) are cooking. Have done it to many cars. Just don't raise it enough to be ugly. Some cars/trucks (MazdaSpeedy3) you can remove the wiper cowl and it creates opening for air to pass out behind hood.

Air exiting out the bottom of your engine compartment creates more air pressure under the car so less traction w/ road. Air being pushed up is downforce. Air being trapped in engine compartment is drag just like driving down road w/ metal parachute.

The kidney vents I used on my DSM are from Road Race Engineering's partner company CarbonTrix. Not a hardware store and I think a vendor on here so good to support them. They have pics on their website of other carbon fiber vents and scoops installed on DSMs.

Very cool stuff, that all makes sense. Looks like I'll be doing some reading. Thank you for the expert advice!

 

[T is for TURBO]

Our cars take timing 1*@206 and 2*@225 or somewhere around there. Operating temp is 185-205 so I consider overheating anything above that.

I agree. However, one could be at normal operating temp 95% of the time, but we all know what those hot summer days can do to our temps. I know that my temps sit around 200° most of the time, but a real hot days, I've seen my temps creep up to above 205°.

Lower IAT is a good thing as well. I think that ducting the could help that but not as much as creating a cold air box around the intake. Forcing air from the bumper to the filter is the best way to drop IAT. Also with the air running right past the hotside of the turbo and coolant running through the tb, its really hard to get a big change in the intake temps.
I agree with you about pressure and velocity, but the increase of resistance also increases pressure because less air can escape around the radiator. Air velocity you dont have much control over.

Agreed again. A blocked off intake is probably the single most important thing to do when trying to decrease IAT. But if you can duct the hot air out, and duct cool air in, it will keep the core cooler and the charge pipes cooler. Most of this can be done with out going to any sort of extreme

Not trying to be argumenative. I'm just throwing it out there that it can be benificial to more than just a race car or a car with cooling problems.

 

[eclipsh]

When McLaren and AMG stuffed a race motor into a AMG Benz, they thought it was such a great idea they also added fender vents also.

I think there is some misunderstanding between us. I agree, venting the engine bay is a fantastic idea, that is why every race car on the planet does it. It is location that is important. That AMG you linked is going to have very different flow at the area of the hood they vented compared to a DSM partly because of the rake of the windshield.

Again, venting = good. Location = Key to success. My beef was just with lifting the whole rear of the hood with washers.

For the handful saying ducting is bad, go learn some science. It will do you good. The ducting helps to create a pressure differential and direct air flow, both of which help push more air through the things we want to cool down (The FMIC, A/C condenser and the Radiator).

 

[mattasi]

There's no less than 3 threads on here.

Huh?

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Mattasi, means threadjacked from ducting to venting, wrapping, scooping, temp effects on engine performance, Lancias, .....

For the handful saying ducting is bad, go learn some science. It will do you good. The ducting helps to create a pressure differential and direct air flow, both of which help push more air through the things we want to cool down (The FMIC, A/C condenser and the Radiator).

Don't think anyone is saying ducting is bad, its more that if you don't need it than its a waste of time and materials and is in your way when you are doing repairs or other mods. I'm a minimalist when it comes to my builds prefering uncluttered appearance, easy access and making car lightweight as possible.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Cowl induction not extraction people. I have posted this before and I will post it again. This is not pressure, this is air velocity or how fast air is moving over the car. The body is a Lotus Elise or Exige.

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Any time air has to change direction, it faces a restriction which slows it down. When air is slowed down, a pressure is created. If that pressure is higher than the pressure in the engine bay, then it will flow into the engine bay. If your pressure is that high in the engine bay that air still flows out, then you have other issues, hence the factory seal on the back of the hood.

As for ducting your front mount to your radiator, this would be ideal assuming you can keep the engine bay air pressure lower than what is in front of the radiator and the front mount. Fluids naturally move from high pressure to low pressure so the greater the pressure differential, the greater the efficiency of a heat exchanger. If you want the air pressure to be reduced in the engine bay, look no further than an evo. The natural bump and the small spoiler on the hood is by far a way better design than just cutting holes in the hood (not putting down the vents seen above, those have a design to them). There is also a really good tilted radiator thread on here where the op ducts right out the hood.

 

[scottyhops]

Does anyone have any links for the front bumper cutouts, like the green gsx in the first pic of the thread? I want to see how other have went about this.

check this out of front bumper cut outs

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/app...ior/427844-front-bumper-cut-outs-cooling.html

 

[mattasi]

Mattasi, means threadjacked from ducting to venting, wrapping, scooping, temp effects on engine performance, Lancias, .....

Huh?