Resolved Leaving front balance shaft in without belt

[Spades]

My front balance shaft has partially seized, i can still spin it using a wrench. I will be eliminating the belt and leaving the front shaft in place, and for the rear i will be cutting it and threading a bolt on there.
Ok my question is for the front shaft ...Since it is partially seized, id rather not pull it just to look at where the oil holes and grooves are. Does anyone know where to clock the pulley so that the groove in the shaft doesnt align with the oil hole from the block? Im thinking to rotate the pulley 180° from TDC, thinking that the groove would line up if clocked at TDC

 

[dwb]

It's not a pulley/BS position that blocks the oil galley. If that's the goal then you need to pull the shaft and bearings, then reinstall the far right bearing (IIRC), so the bearing is clocked and covering the oil galley. Otherwise you leave that BS in place untouched without a belt.
For the shaft that attaches to the oil pump, I'm not sure about cutting the shaft. Isn't there an oil galley that runs down the center of that shaft? Normally you install a stub shaft like this, but stay away from cheap knockoff stub shafts that do not have any oil provisioning.

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[RamenPride]

There are no oil holes in the front shaft, the oil passages are in the block. No need to rotate it.

 

[Spades]

For the one down deeper in the block, you should clock the shaft a certain position to ensure that the backside of the journal is facing the hole to block the oil flow so that you dont drop oil pressure. I just cant remember the position of the pulley in reference to the journal position. I will try to find a pic.

RamenPride - correct, the side closest to the pulley doesnt have a hole but it has a groove thats goes all the way around, so that one wont matter

 

[97egl]

Its been done for years by just leaving the belt off. Most people don't have a seized shaft so it's not possible to "clock" the shaft since it is just going to automatically rotate so the counterweight is on the bottom. That's how I would put it if I were in your situation

 

[donniekak]

If the front balance shaft bearing is spun the only way to fix it is to remove the Phillips head block plugs for access to the oiling hole in the block. You then tap and plug the oil hole.

 

[DSMPT]

Since it is partially seized, id rather not pull it just to look at where the oil holes and grooves are. Does anyone know where to clock the pulley so that the oil holes dont align? Im thinking to rotate the pulley 180° from TDC, thinking that the holes would line up if clocked at TDC

For the bearing deeper in the block, you should clock the shaft a certain position to ensure that the backside of the journal is facing the hole to block the oil flow so that you dont drop oil pressure. I just cant remember the position of the pulley in reference to the journal position. I will try to find a pic.

As for the RH shaft (Front, exhaust side), the oil feed is on the block side and the groove on the shaft is vertical, and shaft is actually floating. So there is no such a position you can set to block off the oil feed holes. While the shaft journals are in there with bearings, you won't loose the oil pressure. Usually you leave the shaft as is by just removing the belt if you want to leave the RH shaft in the engine.
I don't know how badly damaged but since you may probably have the LH bearings damaged, I would strongly recommend you to do this properly by pull the engine from the car and use new bearings to block off the holes or plug them. Otherwise there is a chance that the LH bearings would fall and you would loose the oil pressure since damaged/deformed balance shaft bearings sometimes come loose and pops out. .

I'm not sure about cutting the shaft.

This was kinda common method to eliminate the balance shafts. People used to cut the LH shaft (Rear, intake side) to make a stub shaft, but nowadays most of people use the OEM stub shaft from the beginning, so I recently don't see often that people cutting it.

Isn't there an oil galley that runs down the center of that shaft?

Correct, but the oil comes from the pump side, so you block off the hole after cutting the shaft by tapping or welding.

 

[Spades]

So there is no such a position you can set to block off the oil feed holes. While the shaft journals are in there with bearings, you won't loose the oil pressure

Yes this is correct for the bearing closest to you, but the one deeper down the block there is a groove in the shaft, that is the one that im referring to that should be clocked because 50% of the journal has the groove

ok found couple pics
The yellow circle journal is the one that sits deeper in the block, that groove should be avoided facing the oil hole, and instead have the red circle side facing it... I also have my answer now where to clock the flat cut (green circle) for the pulley

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[DSMPT]

Yes this is correct for the bearing closest to you, but the one deeper down the block there is a groove in the shaft, that is the one that im referring to that should be clocked because 50% of the journal has the groove

You are not getting the point. The groove doesn't affect the pressure. After the groove, the oil has to pass through between the journal and bearing anyways, that's where it prevents losing the pressure.

ok found couple pics
The yellow circle journal is the one that sits deeper in the block, that groove should be avoided facing the oil hole, and instead have the red circle side facing it... I also have my answer now where to clock the flat cut (green circle) for the pulley

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As we already mentioned that it's floating. So even you set the position, the counterweight part go down.

 

[Spades]

You are not getting the point. The groove doesn't affect the pressure. After the groove, the oil has to pass through between the journal and bearing anyways, that's where it prevents losing the pressure.


As we already mentioned that it's floating. So even you set the position, the counterweight part go down.

i am getting the point, im just not in agreement. When you say "the oil has to pass through the journal and bearing and thats where it prevents losing pressure", then you are saying it DOES make a difference, which is exactly my goal

So even you set the position, the counterweight part go down.

In my case the counterweight will NOT go down because i mentioned that it is partially seized, but i can still spin it using a wrench... So i have the opportunity to select the position of avoiding the groove. Its also very possible that when the counterweight is down that the non-groove area happens to be facing the oil hole, and that is why it isnt a problem for others

 

[dwb]

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about why the BS is seized. Is the bearing still in place or is it laying in the oil pan? Did it spin or eat the bearing and cause metal to get introduced into the oil system? Did you check your oil/filter for glitter? You could have an opportunity to fix it now, but you may not be so lucky in another 1000 miles.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Very good question........

 

[DSMPT]

i am getting the point,

I am afraid it doesn't seem so. If you were getting the point, you were not even planning to leave the partially seized shaft with damaged bearings. (I have no idea how you could know it's partially seized though)
At least you would have to open up and see what's going on. The point you should be worried about is not the groove position.

When you say "the oil has to pass through the journal and bearing and thats where it prevents losing pressure", then you are saying it DOES make a difference, which is exactly my goal

You are not even getting this...

In my case the counterweight will NOT go down because i mentioned that it is partially seized, but i can still spin it using a wrench... So i have the opportunity to select the position of avoiding the groove. Its also very possible that when the counterweight is down that the non-groove area happens to be facing the oil hole, and that is why it isnt a problem for others

We have already told you what should be done.

Did you build this engine yourself?

 

[19Eclipse90]

Perhaps this illustration will help for general understanding.

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What Hiroshi is saying (and feel free to correct me if I’m misunderstanding also) since the shaft is “floating” in the journal, the resistance to flow (i.e., contributes to the oil pressure) exists because of the design clearance between the shaft and the bearing.

The oil in the groove has to exit the journal the same way that oil would have to exit if there wasn’t a groove. The groove allows the journal to receive adequate oiling from the main and keep the shaft lubricated.

Nothing is changing for the clearance between the shaft and bearing / journal unless the bearing is already damaged so the resistance to flow would not be affected, based on orientation of the shaft, meaning system oil pressure would remain the same.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I was trying to stay out of the thread, but if ANY BEARING IS COMPROMISED, you need more than a BS delete.
Unfortunately, it is time for a teardown and inspection then reassembly if you want it to make it another 5000 miles. A good look in the oil filter for contaminate's will tell you if you need to, as has been mentioned, I believe.
Marty

 

[Spades]

Ive put 2200 miles so far and its still running great, i just left the belt off the front shaft and clock it anyway since everyone says it wont make a difference. And for the rear shaft I just cut the original shaft and tapped threads and plugged the hole with a bolt, with loctite. So far so good, doesnt burn any oil and no drop in oil pressure, no gauge just the dummy light