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1G Balance shaft belt install help

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sherwinz28

15+ Year Contributor
219
3
Aug 25, 2004
Hayward, California
Well I went to put on the balance shaft belt and what do you know, I need to remove the front of the crank pulley since the balance shaft belt won't just slip in there. I don't want to eliminate the balance shaft yet so I thought I'd just replace the belt. The only problem is that the pulley (gear) for the balance shaft spins freely, meaning I can just spin it with my hand. It does turn counter clockwise if I let it go pointing up.

How do I unbolt this gear since it turns in both directions with the wrench?

Also is there any easy way to remove the crank pulley so I can fit the balance belt around that. I do have an air compressor and some air tools? I picked this car up for cheap from a tow yard and I've had the head rebuilt and am replacing all the belts/pulleys.

Is there anyway I can check to make sure the internals are ok? I've spun the motor around many times and can see that pistons all come up and down. The pistons look fine.

This is for a 92 talon TSI AWD 6 bolt.
Thanks,
Sherwin
 
sherwinz28 said:
...

It does turn counter clockwise if I let it go pointing up. How do I unbolt this gear since it turns in both directions with the wrench?
...
Also is there any easy way to remove the crank pulley so I can fit the balance belt around that...I do have an air compressor and some air tools?
...

If you have an old belt or you can use shop rags to protect the cogged gear and a large set of Chanel-Locks you can hold and use an air hammer. I don't know what problem you are encountering with the crank but similar process may work. If not then you can lock the starter ring gear with large screwdriver, hammer handles, or blocks of wood. I do hope you have take the cams out before you try to do anything that may have the engine spinning backwards.

Cheers,
GTM
 
Ok, I'm not exactly sure how to hold the starter ring gear? The head is not on the car. I'm waiting to put the balance shaft belt on and align all the timing marks and then put the head on. When I took the car apart I did not find a balance shaft belt :confused: .
 
sherwinz28 said:
Ok, I'm not exactly sure how to hold the starter ring gear? The head is not on the car. I'm waiting to put the balance shaft belt on and align all the timing marks and then put the head on. When I took the car apart I did not find a balance shaft belt :confused: .

You just need to lock the ring gear from turning, you can shape a 2x4 block so it will grab several teeth. Try to set at a diagonal like this \ so it will lock in tighter when removing bolt and this / when tightening. You can also with the pan off put a 2x4 between the crank and the inside of the block to keep it from turning.

The belt could have broken and they pulled it out the bottom to keep it from winding into the timing belt.

Cheers,
GTM
 
Ahh, ok I got it. I'll try it that way.

The last question is, should the gear that holds the balance shaft belt move freely in any direction (not crankshaft)? I can move it in either direction with my hand and I can't seem to unbolt the bolt holding that gear in place.
 
sherwinz28 said:
Ahh, ok I got it. I'll try it that way. The last question is, should the gear that holds the balance shaft belt move freely in any direction(not crankshaft)? I can move it in either direction with my hand and I can't seem to unbolt the bolt holding that gear in place.

Thought I explained you wrap the balance shaft gears with a rag or an old belt and use a large Chanel Lock to hold them while using an impact wrench. Yes they both will turn freely in either direction.

Cheers,
GTM
 
Just an update to this post. I used my airgun to remove the bolt holding the crankhub. It took a while but my pressure said 120 ft/lbs(?) and it got it out. I reduced this down to 100 ft/lbs when I used the airgun to bolt it back in. Hopefully this will be ok. This seemed to be the easiest way to do it without making things complicated. Now to do the timing belt portion. By the way thanks for the help, much appreciated.
 
sherwinz28 said:
Just an update to this post. I used my airgun to remove the bolt holding the crankhub. It took a while but my pressure said 120 ft/lbs(?) and it got it out. I reduced this down to 100 ft/lbs when I used the airgun to bolt it back in. Hopefully this will be ok. This seemed to be the easiest way to do it without making things complicated. Now to do the timing belt portion. By the way thanks for the help, much appreciated.

You didn't mention you had air tools which usually makes an easy task.

Under ideal conditions removal torque is about 30% less than install torque. We have no idea how many ft. lbs. your impact gun imposed when installing the retaining bolt. It would be better if you loosened the bolt and used a torque wrench set to factory specs. I'm sure you have encountered lug nuts that were installed by some gorilla so only a weight lifter could remove them.

Another method which works well if it's a standard transmission is to put in top gear, set the brakes and then use your tools. There can be some disadvantages to this when an engine such as a DSM which has a notoriety for jumping time for the crank will wind up some degrees as it takes the lash out of the transmission gears and then springs back Coming apart isn't an issue especially if you already have bent valves but if the engine is timed then it might be a concern.

Cheers,
GTM
 
Yeah sorry I didn't mention I had air tools, I rarely use them. Well I'm hoping I got everything timed correctly. I spun the motor over by hand about 10 times and it spins around.

I just had one more question. The motor spins kind of akwardly...for instance at one point it will be difficult to spin with my torque bar but once it gets around half way the other half it spins easily? Whats up with that?

Buck, I know I still have the balance shafts...they're going to stay until I remove the motor from the car for a bigger upgrade. I just want to start this thing and drive it around...I've never driven it since I bought it.
 
sherwinz28 said:
Yeah sorry I didn't mention I had air tools, I rarely use them.
...
I just had one more question. The motor spins kind of akwardly...for instance at one point it will be difficult to spin with my torque bar but once it gets around half way the other half it spins easily? Whats up with that?
...

Sometimes air tools can be a waste of time especially if you only have a couple bolts to do and you end up having to fight to get them in place when conventional tools will do the job.
...

More than likely this is valve rock where the valve springs are exerting so much pressure on the lobes that it wants to wind the engine either backwards or forwards. It can be edgy when playing with the cams and the belt is off if the bearings are free it will jump and smack other valves on pistons. Just double check, triple check your work, it will also do this if the timing is off. With inclined valves it's so easy to tweak them for you don't get that solid feeling of hitting something hard.

Cheers,
GTM
 
GTM, so I believe I have everything timed correctly. If it weren't the engine wouldn't turn over, correct? What you described "it wants to wind the engine either backwards or forwards" is exactly what it feels like.

I got my cylinder head done by BJ so he gave me his stage 3 head, I think. Would there be an easy way to check if the timing isnt correct?

I just want to make sure everything is correct before I put it all back together...I thought my LT1 was difficult to work on. BTW, thanks for the help very appreciated.
 
sherwinz28 said:
GTM, so I believe I have everything timed correctly. If it weren't the engine wouldn't turn over, correct? What you described "it wants to wind the engine either backwards or forwards" is exactly what it feels like.

I got my cylinder head done by BJ so he gave me his stage 3 head, I think. Would there be an easy way to check if the timing isnt correct?

I just want to make sure everything is correct before I put it all back together...I thought my LT1 was difficult to work on. BTW, thanks for the help very appreciated.

Cam dowel pins up, cam marks meshed, crank pulley at TDC. Of course the belt has to be properly tensioned and the balance/oil properly timed. Anything else is wrong.

Should run... unless

Cheers,
GTM
 
Ok well there was one problem.

I took off the oil pump gear and rotated the motor and did all sorts of other things and when I went to put the gear back on I didn't know how to put it on correctly. It's not like the crank where it fits on a spline and you can't mess it up.

So anyway I just put it on and made sure it swung counter-clockwise and kind of put the sprocket on so it lined up with the timing mark, if in actuality it is lined up right is anyones guess. So in any case all the timing marks were lined up when I put on the belt. I hope this makes sense, please let me know if the oil pump gear is wrong?

I know I'm suppose to put a screwdriver in the back of the block but that hole was extremely difficult to get to so I just made sure the oil pump gear swung backwards like in the vfaq.
 
sherwinz28 said:
...
if in actuality it is lined up right is anyones guess. So in any case all the timing marks were lined up when I put on the belt. I hope this makes sense...please let me know if the oil pump gear is wrong? I know I'm suppose to put a screwdriver in the back of the block but that hole was extremely difficult to get to so I just made sure the oil pump gear swung backwards like in the vfaq.

While you may luck out with the balance shaft, see if you can get it running with the least number of parts on the front cover and engine mount as a test. The oil pump gear index is not critical, the balance shaft position is. I found the easiest way to access the bolt was from underneath the car, using a #2 philips screwdriver works well but allows a certain movement so it's not absolute but there is a comfort zone knowing you do have it locked. I don't think it will cause it to jump time but if it's off you will have vibration so since it's a pia to pull the cover off avoid putting it on. You can run it for a couple of minutes without the waterpump turning or the powersteering etc as long as you have water in the system.

Keep us posted,
GTM
 
Also if you have the timing belt off the back balance shaft/oil pump drive will have a tendency to remain stationary if rocked slightly, and it is properly aligned. If the balance shaft is misaligned then the gear will tend to rotate away from the timing marks being aligned. By rocking it I mean starting with the timing mark aligned and using two fingers to rotate it slightly clockwise, and again anti-clockwise. When done the timing mark should under it own power return to the roughfly aligned position. This works because the balance shaft weight is at the bottom when aligned correctly. This is rather subjective, and is by no means substitute for removing the bolt at the back of the block and inserting a pin to ensure actual shaft position.

Also remember that when rotating the motor and checking the cams (with dowel pins up), crank, and oil pump/ balance shaft timing marks, that the oil pump/balance shaft timing mark will only line up with its timing mark once per every six rotations of the crankshaft.
 
um, when i did my timing belt, i noticed the balance shaft belt wouldn't slip over the cog, due to the metal plate for the crank sensor, but the plate has a space in it, so i turned the crank backwards to get the space at the side, slipped the belt in and turned it back. easy easy ROFL

Do some people actually remove the crank sprocket? :tease: i mean, not everything thats written in the book is correct, and you dont have to do everything by the book..

I did this belt job on a cold day in the garage, engine in car etc..
 
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