Leaner AFR during colder weather, Richer AFR when warmer...

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Ok. I've been messing around with the tune on my car for a while now. Seems to run really good at 11.0:1 AFR on 91 pump gas with 18* timing by redline. What seems to be the problem now is that I've got the timing under control to the point where it doesn't knock at all til 25psi. My open loop fuel table is still relatively stock with the target AFR at 9.55.

My problem is that we have been having some wickedly cold weather lately in the 1-10* range that I have been loving the no knock factor. A WOT pull at these temps results in a 11.0-11.3:1 AFR at around 70% IDC. But today we had a warm spell of 60*. And at these temps my AFR @ WOT is now sub 10.0:1 (AEM only registers that low ).

Question:

Since the open loop fuel map target is 9.55:1 is is possible that on these colder days I'm just running out of pump? I'm only on a rewired 190. Looks like it could be hitting close to the target AFR on the warmer days. If I were to change the target to around 10.8:1 it would shoot for that and maybe on the colder days it will still get the 11.0-11.3:1 AFR?

Fuel trims are dead nuts close to 100%:
Low: 105
Mid: 102
High: 101

This makes me think I'm correcting for the injectors properly but why is it so inconsistent on the open loop map?

Thanks for the help...

~Andrew~

 

[JayRolla]

Im guessin you have a maf-t?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Im guessin you have a maf-t?

Nope... Profile is up to date...

 

[GSXDNA]

Interesting concept with the fuel pump idea. I'd be curiuous to see if that's it.

 

[JusMX141]

Air density changes with colder temps, although this is something your car should correct on it's own.

I can remember back when I raced motocross full-time, jetting for colder temperatures and altitude changes was crucial to make consistent power. I never had the luxury of a digital number telling me if my bike was lean or rich, but I could tell by how responsive it was and how it pulled down straightaways if my jetting wasn't correct for the weather and elevation.

The most correction was needed for low elevation in the winter. Higher elevation tended to make the bike run rich, so many times if I jetted my bike at my shop (1100ft) and went to a race in the mountains (2400ft) where the air was cooler, the difference in the air temp dropping and making my bike leaner but the higher elevation making my bike richer would balance out.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

I understand that part of it. But I read somewhere on here that my target AFR might not be met if my global and deadtimes are not correct therefore openloop is off a little bit. So shouldn't my AFR be consistent warm or cold since that is what my MAS compensates for? And if the target AFR is not met, shouldn't that mean my fuel delivery is not keeping up? And since my IDC's are still pretty low that should mean my pump is the culprit?

This is what I'm going to do. I currently have the NT FPR in the fuel rail. This is making me compensate the injectors on a global scale @ 690cc's instead of the 650's that they are. I'm thinking that is why I'm not hitting the target of 9.55 since I'm leaning the injectors out further than what they are. I will throw the turbo FPR back on and adjust my chip to get the fuel trims back in line. That should raise my IPW during open loop possibly getting me closer to the target. Then I can start messing with the fuel map to lean it out to my taste.

I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[dnhieu]

when its colder outside the weather is more dense (more oxygen) and when its hotter the air is less dense. thats the reason for your afr change. even tho it should go that rich...

 

[Ceddy]

Remember that the Intake Air Temperature(IAT) sensor is in the MAS, and not at the intake manifold.

The ecu figures your stock turbo at stock boost is heating your intake air a certain amount, and your stock intercooler is cooling it a certain amount.

If you find your fuel system is not the problem you can try editing the IAT correction table, to get a more consistent tune.

Also since you have a 2G MAS and TunerPro, I figure you have already replaced the MAS table with the 2G table, I am not sure if the 1G and 2G, IAT and Baro correction tables are 100% identical, if they are not that could be a cause of your varying AFRs at extreme temps.

when its colder outside the weather is more dense (more oxygen) and when its hotter the air is less dense. thats the reason for your afr change. even tho it should go that rich...

The ecu compensates for air temperature and barometric pressure, there should be no AFR change on a stock car.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

I tried putting the turbo FPR on and correcting for 650's to try and raise my IPW during open loop. I ended up just running even more lean @ WOT. So, I put the NTFPR back on and went with my same tune but changed the target AFR to 10.5:1 in the open loop map. The next thing I'm going to try and do is the extended fuel/timing load maps. I have not done this yet. And since I'm running a lot more than 15psi I think it would be a good move. I'll try and do this tonight and see how it affects my AFR.

Yes I have compensated the 2g Mas scaler and map in my chip. I have not touched the IAT function at all.

Keep the ideas coming guys...

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Here's a log after the Extended Fuel Maps were implemented. This is at 22-23psi.

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[pneumo]

There's another table that needs to be changed when running a 2G mas on a 1G. It compensates for IAT and baro at different temp.

At FB83-FBA6 New code is:
87 87 87 85 85 85 85 85 80
80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
7D 7D 78 7A 7B 7C 7C 7C 80
7B 7B 75 78 7A 7A 7A 7A 80

hth

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

There's another table that needs to be changed when running a 2G mas on a 1G. It compensates for IAT and baro at different temp.

At FB83-FBA6 New code is:
87 87 87 85 85 85 85 85 80
80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
7D 7D 78 7A 7B 7C 7C 7C 80
7B 7B 75 78 7A 7A 7A 7A 80

hth

Nice... Thank you. I'll try that and see what that gets me.