Leaking turbo among other things..

[whoa]

Hey all. I've been a lurker on these boards for a long time, I recently acquired a 2g talon tsi awd from a buddy. I have helped him with this car for a couple years.

Just some background info on this problem. The car would barely start after 5 mins or so. When it did start, it had trouble idling by itself until it was warmed up. We rented an ECU code reader from Autozone and found that the MAF was bad, this was the only code that the reader pulled. They didn't have the MAF at Autozone, so we went back, started up the car just to let it run for a bit while we went to another Autozone to pick up the part. Turns out this Autozone is closed, so we head back. It's been probably 20 minutes now. We turn down the street and see huge billowing clouds of oil smoke coming from this car. Uh crap.

So it turns out that the turbo has been spraying oil. Not quite sure why this happened but I have a theory I'd like to run by you all. When we pulled the oil cap off, probably a good 30-40 psi (guessing) blew out of it. This leads me to believe that the PCV is probably sticking or just not working at all, as I checked compression on all cylinders and got 185psi on each (not piston ring blow-by). What I'm thinking is that crankcase pressure built up, adding more pressure to the oil system and leading to turbo seal blow-out. Is this possible?

I picked up a MAF used from a member of this board today and popped that in, the car starts up just fine now but still idles terribly and will not rev past 1.5k. When I pull the intake tube off the turbo, I can see a good amount of oil in there. Pressure is still building in the crankcase, I have not replaced the PCV yet. Going to go pick one up right now.

Does anyone have any advice for me?

 

[killer_eclipse]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

it sounds to me like something is wrong with your pcv system check this out and see if it helps.
i would start by replacing your pcv valve with an OEM replacement and check to make sure the valve cover to turbo intake pipe is attached and not clogged or damaged.

 

[whoa]

I replaced the PCV, seems to idle slightly better and I believe that the turbo is no longer leaking oil. Now I have the opposite problem though, instead of massive pressure in the crankcase, I have a pretty big vaccum. Not sure if this is normal or not (assuming it is not), seems I may have a largish vaccum leak into the crankcase someplace.

Edit: the turbo is still spraying oil, I'm just going to assume that the built up crankcase pressure stopped the turbo oil return and blew the seals out. I think I need to do a leakdown test next.

 

[killer_eclipse]

I replaced the PCV, seems to idle slightly better and I believe that the turbo is no longer leaking oil. Now I have the opposite problem though, instead of massive pressure in the crankcase, I have a pretty big vacuum. Not sure if this is normal or not (assuming it is not), seems I may have a largish vacuum leak into the crankcase someplace.

Edit: the turbo is still spraying oil, I'm just going to assume that the built up crankcase pressure stopped the turbo oil return and blew the seals out. I think I need to do a leak down test next.

what do you mean you have a pretty big vacuum? did you get a Mitsubishi pcv or a parts store one because with these you gotta stick to OEM the others just dint work. as far as the turbo goes have you checked for shaft play? it might just be time for a rebuild... what does your oil pressure look like?

 

[whoa]

If I loosen the oil cap, it is literally vaccum sealed to the valve cover. I realized the line running to the PCV is a vaccum line from the intake manifold so that makes sense. The vent on the left side of the valve cover is blocked up. That must be the reason there is vaccum in the crankcase now. I'm planning to recirculate this line into the intake, that should get rid of the vaccum.

The turbo has maybe 2000 miles on it. I think it's an evo turbo, I recall seeing TD05 stamped on the casting. The guy I got it from put it in just recently. There's no shaft play but it's spraying quite a bit of oil still. I'm pretty set on rebuilding this turbo though at this point. I went through the vaccum lines tonight just to make sure, didn't find anything incorrect. I'm going to try a leakdown tomorrow, hopefully I can get some answers from that.

 

[killer_eclipse]

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I would definitely check this line sounds to me like there is something clogging it somehow or the hole at either the valve cover is clogged or the hole at the intake is. there has to be a restriction in that part of the system somewhere.
check back about the results of the leak-down test. I don't see it having anything to do with your rings or valves cause if it was one of those you wouldn't see vacuum you would see hi crankcase pressure like you were be for.

 

[romeen]

The crankcase is supposed to have vacuum at idle. If you have access to a vacuum gauge it would be helpful to know what the actual value is.

As stated, check the turbo for shaft play. Also make sure you don't have a kink or obstruction in the turbo oil return line.

 

[whoa]

Well, I checked that line running from the left side of the VC to the intake. This line was blocked off. I replaced the line and put a new fitting into the intake tube. Should be fine now. The turbo has no shaft play, this is basically a new turbo. I'd say it has less than 2000 miles on it.

I also ran a leakdown test, all 4 cylinders were well into the green "good" section on my gauge at 100psi. I guess I'm really trying to troubleshoot 2 problems here, 1 is that the car runs like shit, will not go over 1.5k rpm; and 2 is the turbo spraying oil. I was thinking that for the first problem, I may have a bad head gasket or leaking valve seals but the leakdown test shows otherwise.

I tried putting the MAF and filter directly on the throttle body, effectively cutting out the turbo. The car ran exactly the same with this setup. I also tried swapping the ECU with one that the previous owner had bought, still running the same. The car is running really rich, it fouls the plugs almost instantly. I'm going to run a code reader on it again today, I have no check engine light in the dash, but I'm not sure if the light even works.

 

[killer_eclipse]

do a boost leak test... you said you already replaced the maft correct? what fuel pump is in the car? Are there any mods done to the car?

 

[whoa]

I think I figured it out. Picked up a code scanner from autozone today. MAF is throwing a code as soon as I give even a tiny bit of throttle off idle. Tried clearing a few times with the same result. MAF seems to be the only code I'm getting. Also when I disconnect the MAF harness, the car runs exactly the same. I guess this is what I get for automatically assuming the replacement would just work. Hopefully the guy I got this MAF from will be able to get me one that works.

I also drained at least a quart of oil out of the intercooler. Pretty sick. Ran it for a bit after draining the intercooler with jpipe disconnected from the intercooler, the oil spraying seems to have stopped. Gonna be a lot of work to get the intake all cleaned out.

 

[killer_eclipse]

have you checked the wires for the maf at the ECU to make sure that they are all i good condition and not damaged or disconnected. do you have a safc installed?was there ever that you know of? maybe the maf signal wire is not connected, if there was an safc that was taken out then maybe the wires were not reconnected.

 

[whoa]

Haven't checked the MAF wiring yet. There has never been a SAFC on this car as far as I know though. I was thinking about checking continuity on the wiring anyway just to make sure. I'm fairly sure that the wiring is fine, simply because I know for fact that the original MAF is bad. I pulled it apart and saw that water had got inside it. There are multiple burned up components on the circuit board.

 

[killer_eclipse]

i would double check the wires because you never know what someone else could have done to it before you. do you have a logger? you could check to see if the maft is working correctly using that cause it sounds to me like you either have a massive boost leak, like a turbo hose not attached, or the ECU is running in safe mode due to no maf signal. Does the car run the same whether at normal operating temp or cold?

 

[whoa]

Well at the moment I have the turbo just completely disconnected. Intake tube with MAF is directly on the throttle body. Looking over the intake/turbo setup, the car should run fine like this albeit with minimal power. I just want to get the damn thing running before I start digging into the possible turbo problem.

I went through and checked continuity on all the MAF-ECU wiring, and I also checked voltage on the red and gnd wires at the MAF. Seems to be all good on that end. I'm pretty sure now that this MAF is just bad, I even tried cleaning it with some electronics spray cleaner. I spoke with the guy I got this one from, he's going to see if he can test another one on a 2g and give me that tonight.

 

[killer_eclipse]

yah i would definetly check into the maf and make sure. have you inspected the ECU yet?

 

[whoa]

I have 2 ECU's, no change when switching between them.

 

[Cinimod]

Yeah, sounds like a bad maf. Hopefully switching it out will fix the problem. As for the turbo squirting oil, seems the seals are shot becuase of the huge pressure problem you had earlier. Good luck with the fix.

 

[whoa]

Yeah, sounds like a bad maf. Hopefully switching it out will fix the problem. As for the turbo squirting oil, seems the seals are shot becuase of the huge pressure problem you had earlier. Good luck with the fix.

Actually I think that the turbo is OK. I let it run for a while today just idling and it doesn't seem to be spraying oil anymore.

 

[whoa]

So, I took a trip up north to the guy's place who sold me the MAF. We tested it out on his 2g and it seems to work absolutely perfectly, now I'm stumped

Is there any other reason the ECU would throw MAF malfunction code besides a malfunctioning MAF?

 

[spatulahunter1]

I think you should beat the crap outta the asshole that gave you the car. Thats just my opinion on the subject

 

[whoa]

I think you should beat the crap outta the asshole that gave you the car. Thats just my opinion on the subject

Ok. Call me when you get home.

 

[killer_eclipse]

do you have a logger. it would tell us weather you are receiving a signal from the maf or not.

 

[whoa]

No, I don't have a logger. This is the first obd2 car I've ever owned actually. I was just outside screwing around with it, and I unplugged the TPS while it was running, and the car actually stopped missing and idles nicely. Of course giving any gas shuts it right down, but I think I am going to replace the TPS and see if that makes any difference. Also the fans are and have been running constantly.

 

[Evil94Evo]

Hey. Its Paul the guy you bought the maf from. I have a 2g throttle body etc I can sell if you figure out that that is what your problem is. Sorta make sense !

good luck

 

[whoa]

Cool, sent you an email. I'm pretty sure it's the TPS, damn thing must think the throttle is wide open or something for the amount of unspent fuel it's exhausting.