Killing 14B's!

[91BlackLaser]

I have put 3 14b's on my sons Laser in the last few months. The first one had 300,000kms on it so I thought it died from age. I put another good used one on and it only lasted 1 day. Then I put another one on (in very good shape) and it lasted a week. I have checked for oil supply and it is fine. I did fix some leaks in the top IC neck and today I found a hole in the hose that runs to the top of the BOV. The guy that had the car before us crushed the 1G BOV to much he now tells me. Would the Leak in the hose and the crushed BOV be leaving way to much pressure in the system and killing the turbos that fast? The boost gauge said it was spiking at about 17-18psi and then coming back to about14-15psi. Could the turbo be running way harder than the boost gauge shows and is killing them? I am new to turbos so I am looking to pick your brains. Also, I did find a leak on one of the runners on the intake. Help or ideas would be great. Thanks! Almost forgot, when I listen to the intake pipe it sounds like an old fashioned alarm clock with the bells ringing. Is that the fins hitting the housing?

 

[JayRolla]

Did you prime the turbos? A to crushed bov will cause it not to work and deffinetly will kill the turbo fast. Just dont think it would kill it that fast.

 

[bmwisthekey]

Your turbo has been working pretty hard to keep up the boost you've set since you had a leak in the bov vacuum line and the leak you found in the runner on the intake manifold. So yes you could prematurely wear a turbo out by overboosting it, when boost leaks are present the turbo has to work even harder to maintain the set boost level.

 

[91BlackLaser]

Did you prime the turbos? A to crushed bov will cause it not to work and deffinetly will kill the turbo fast. Just dont think it would kill it that fast.

No, I did not prime them. I know both the people that gave me the turbos and they went from one car straight to another. Would not priming them kill them fast? Somebody else had thought it could be compresser surge.

 

[Rex2342]

If you have a BIG boost leak then yes the turbo could be working harder than what the guage is showing. When I fixed my leaks I picked up about 4psi and mine were relatively small leaks but there where a few so... The kind of damage you seeing isn't normal so that makes me think it's a little more than just a boost leak. Even at 14-16psi a boost leak wouldn't make the turbo run hard enough to destroy itself unless the leak is massive. I think you would notice a leak like this. My 14b consistantly sees 20-23psi almost daily and hasn't had the kind of problems your describing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if the BOV isn't opening as it should wouldn't that cause compressor surge and kill the turbo?

 

[bmwisthekey]

Yes a bov that isnt working properly i.e.( not opening due to the fact it was crushed too much) could cause compressor surge, which in turn can kill a turbo.

 

[91BlackLaser]

The BOV is so crushed that the vacuum line is almost straight up! Would adding UICP cause more problems with the crushed BOV? The guy who owned the car before ran the BOV like that for like a year at 18psi and had no problems. He said it may be because I added UICP.

 

[bmwisthekey]

I dont believe that adding the uicp would cause more problems.

 

[JayRolla]

The BOV is so crushed that the vacuum line is almost straight up!

Yea that is deffinently way to crushed. Thats crazy. . If you didnt prime the turbos than that is your problem. You ran them without oil and it killed them.

 

[91BlackLaser]

Yea that is deffinently way to crushed. Thats crazy. . If you didnt prime the turbos than that is your problem. You ran them without oil and it killed them.

Would it not get oil as soon as the cars starts?

 

[JayRolla]

Im not sure, dont know why. I just know a few people that have done the same thing as you and killed there turbos. I primed mine when it was new because knew it had to be done.

 

[flashburn02]

I would agree that the crushed BOV needs to be adressed. Also, priming the turbos should be the first step.

 

[91BlackLaser]

I would agree that the crushed BOV needs to be adressed. Also, priming the turbos should be the first step.

I had a another 1G BOV that I crushed a bit and installed that today but I think the turbo is dead now. Judging by the fact I can hear what sounds like bells from the intake tube I think that the turbo is done.....again!

 

[Strm Trpr]

Since you found so many leaks in the IC piping and on the intake runner, I would recommend building one of these to test for boost leaks.
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html

I would imagine priming the turbo is simply pulling the MPI fuse out of the fuse holding near or attached to the brackets of the battery and turning it over a 2 or 3 times for about 10secs each time.
The MPI fuse will not let the injectors fire and you can push oil up to the turbo prior to the exhaust pushing the turbine and shredding the journal bearing in the CHRA.

 

[Strm Trpr]

How do you know you don't have an oil supply problem?
Did you test it somehow?
1g's pull their oil from the head, which is unfiltered by the way.
Road Race Engineering has a oil feed line for 1gs that pulls oil from the oil filter bracket like on 2gs. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/oillineinstall.htm

 

[91BlackLaser]

Since you found so many leaks in the IC piping and on the intake runner, I would recommend building one of these to test for boost leaks.
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html

I would imagine priming the turbo is simply pulling the MPI fuse out of the fuse holding near or attached to the brackets of the battery and turning it over a 2 or 3 times for about 10secs each time.
The MPI fuse will not let the injectors fire and you can push oil up to the turbo prior to the exhaust pushing the turbine and shredding the journal bearing in the CHRA.

I already build a boost leak tester, that is how I found the leaks. I will use that method to prime the next turbo I put on the car. Thanks

 

[brute]

Or you could disconnect the plug wires from the coil pack and cranking for a couple seconds. That way, the oil begins to run through the system.

 

[2fast4]

Can you be more specific when you said it *dead*?
Is not spinning anymore, as in shaft is frozen?
Is there too much shaft play?

If shaft is frozen, likely the turbine side oil seal is stuck with oil being cooked on it. I suspect oil supply, or not cooling down after driving hard. Anyhow, for oil supply, check the oil supply pipe(the one that oil comes down from the head). There might be a debris stuck in the narrowing part of the pipe. Pour some solvent in it and shake off the debris.

For if the shaft is stuck, use 11mm? long socket on compressor nut and whack on the ratchet lightly(clockwise). That will unfreeze and should be fine.

Also, see how much shaft play there is(side to side and back and forth). You should be able to see if blades hitting the housing or not(look at your already dead ones).

Good luck

 

[andymoraitis]

I don't think it's any one thing that's killed your turbos, especially when you consider how old they are. Jason correctly mentioned the crushing on the BOV (which is excessive if the vacuum port is pointing straight up) and the importance of priming. Sometimes, it doesn't take much to push something that's marginal over the edge. I would also re-check the feed and return lines to verify that oil isn't coked in the lines and ensure that you coold it down for a little bit after hard runs.

All of the above posters have raised very valid points. Dig into it, keep us posted and les us know what you find.

Andy

 

[91BlackLaser]

The car has a turbo timer and it always cooled after a hard run. I checked the oil feed off the head and there is oil flowing from it. When I say dead I mean all shaft play and LOTS of it. All the fins on the 2nd turbo were all broken off! The first one had tons of shaft play as well. This one has a fair amount of shaft play already. Can I unbolt the return line and the start the car for a few seconds and see how much oil is coming through? I am going to get him a big 16G from Slowboy racing but want to cure the problem before slapping on a $800 turbo and killing it! How fast can the extra pressure kill a turbo if the BOV is not working right?

 

[andymoraitis]

An overly crushed BOV will quickly do in a turbo that's already on it's way out. As I mentioned earlier it's that, plus a possible lack of priming or feed issues that are taking a turbo that's old and tired over the edge. FYI, you can buy new Mitsu EVO III 16G's from:

http://www.turbochargers.com

These will come with a warranty and will run you around $500 shipped. As far as testing the feed, you can do this to see if you have line blockage or simply replace all of the feed and return lines to ensure that you're getting a strong supply of clean oil to the bearing. I'd also invest in an uncrushed 1G BOV to avoid the surge problems that your other one is likely causing. We have plenty for sale in the classifieds.

If you do decide to crush a BOV in the future, do so with a MityVac so that it releases at 19 in/hg. This will prevent it from leaking at idle and will safely help it hold more boost without being overdone. Also, please make sure you pull the MPI fuse and crank the motor over in 10-15 second increments for 3-4 times to ensure that the turbo has oil prior to starting it for the first time.

Keep us posted on how things go,

Andy

 

[dieseltech]

just a suggestion for priming a turbo. When I install one i use a product called syncut, it aids in the installation of orings and such. It's a thick heavy lube that when warm becomes fluid. Anyway I would use a break-in lube that you can buy at a parts store. Cap the return off and fill the supply side with the lube. This way you won't have to be cranking your engine excessively. I'd definately suggest installing the 2g oil supply kit mentioned above. Clean oil is good.


I was just thinking also, Did you make sure the return line isn't clogged. I noticed you mentioned having 300k miles. If it's clogged you may not be getting proper lubrication and cooling of the bearings. Good luck.

 

[andymoraitis]

just a suggestion for priming a turbo. When I install one i use a product called syncut, it aids in the installation of orings and such. It's a thick heavy lube that when warm becomes fluid.

I've heard of this before and know mechanics who swear by it. Good info.

 

[91BlackLaser]

just a suggestion for priming a turbo. When I install one i use a product called syncut, it aids in the installation of orings and such. It's a thick heavy lube that when warm becomes fluid. Anyway I would use a break-in lube that you can buy at a parts store. Cap the return off and fill the supply side with the lube. This way you won't have to be cranking your engine excessively. I'd definately suggest installing the 2g oil supply kit mentioned above. Clean oil is good.


I was just thinking also, Did you make sure the return line isn't clogged. I noticed you mentioned having 300k miles. If it's clogged you may not be getting proper lubrication and cooling of the bearings. Good luck.

The return line is new.