HELP! Three blown 14b's in 500 miles!!!!

[Sk8er07999]

Ok, I bought the car with the 14b on it and it ran great for a few months. Had one track day it was fine then that night I went out and messed around with a mustang on the street and thats when it blew. This one had tons of shaft play(like half an inch) and just smoked like crazy. So I got another one from a friend for 100 bucks off his parts car. We put it on and it lasts about an hour and then blows again while we are out messing around. Well I took it off and looked at it and this one just completely self distructed. The bolt that holds on the compressor wheel was laying in the intake pipe. The turbine wheel was stuck in O2 housingand the shaft was sheared completely off the back of the turbine wheel. The shaft or the bearing must have flown out and hit the O2 sensor because it's all bashed up. I found the bearing in my muffler but the shaft is missing. So this turbo I don't know maybe the bolt on the compressor just backed off some how and led to the complete distruction of the rest of the turbo. Well now I am on to the third 14b. This one lasted alot longer then the second one. I put about 100 miles on it in one day and it was boosting fine all day long and pulled hard. Well this time I went to launch off a light and it pulled really hard then at about 5k I heard a pop. I though I might have blown an intercooler pipe of but nope nothin. I took off the intake pipe and the turbo does not spin unless you rev it up. Yet it spins freely with your fingers and has NO shaft play nor does it smoke at all. But I think I found pieces of what might be the turbine wheel fins in my exhaust! What the hell is cause this! Could it be compressor surge! My Type-s is too tight and it does make the flutter sound like compressor surge does but would that causet this problem. Also, it can't be a restriction in the oil feed line because I have used a different one all three times. I inspected the coolant feed/return line too and oil drain line and there is no clogs I even cleaned them all up before the third install and it still F'd up! What's the deal! Any help you guys may have would be great. Thanks in advance, Kevin. Oh yeah and the 1st turbo was ran at 18 psi. 2nd was ran at about 15 maybe lower when it self destructed, and the third was ran at around 20 for a very short time when it just stopped working.

 

[pweizman]

It doesn't have to break parts when it overheats for it can just seize the shaft and fail to rotate. In the dozens of turbos my mechanics replaced under warranty while with Nissan I don't remember any that had broken, only seized shafts. I'm sure this was in part due to the newness of the turbos... nothing with 100k so shafts and bushings had not worn. Yes we did have failures but from obvious customer abuse or modifications to increase HP which voided their warranty.

Cheers,
GTM

Agreed...

I have seen a T25 off a 2G that destroyed the bushing when it seized. It actually broke the bushing into three pieces that were rattling around in the turbo.

Not a good scene.

Patrick

 

[Sk8er07999]

So I got the 4th turbo today. It's in really good shape. I thought the third one I got was in good shape and this one is way better. The guy I bought it from said it was from an evo 5. And it only has 40,000 miles on it. Absolutley no shaft play. The wheels look great, and it spines freely. I will let you know what I find when I take the old one off. Thanks for the help guys, Kevin.

 

[fastwaytech]

Well it may still smoke when you boost.

Used turbos can look great with no shaft play and still have issues.

Good luck though, I hope it works out well for you.

 

[GTM]

So I got the 4th turbo today. It's in really good shape. I thought the third one I got was in good shape and this one is way better. The guy I bought it from said it was from an evo 5. And it only has 40,000 miles on it. Absolutley no shaft play. The wheels look great, and it spines freely. I will let you know what I find when I take the old one off. Thanks for the help guys, Kevin.

Good business. First make sure there is no dirt in the oil chambers. I would suggest you fill both sides of the oil passage and then spin it with fingers, Q-tip, nothing hard and nothing that can damage the turbines. You could use compressed air or a vacuum cleaner to spin but once the shaft gets oiled it will be sluggish. Holding your finger over the pressure side dump the oil out the return and spin it again. If you have plugs for the oil holes use them until you are ready for connection for you just don't want manifold rust or anything else falling in there. If you don't have plugs then clean any oil off the outside and use duct tape.

If you use a moly assembly lube, mix with oil so the viscosity is close to that of oil. There is another detail which few know and that is moly is not the best lube for bronze under heavy scuffing load but for the short time your oil will be present before the lube oil pressure flushes it out it will improve the startup of the shaft.

Keep us posted and please stay on top of the possible low oil pressure.and the RPM realistic.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Sk8er07999]

Ok it's installed and boosting happily at 15 lbs. The BOV is like as loose as it can be and seems to be working ALOT better there. As for the other turbo.... I thought it just shaved the turbine fins off but no. It sheared the shaft clean off once again. The turbine wheel was no where to be found. Amazingly the O2 sensor wasn't damaged like it was on turbo number 2. I think I may have finally got it. Too bad I got a speeding ticket right when I open it up on a public road!!! Oh well I am glad to see the boost gauge reading positive again. Thanks for the help. I will let you know if anything happens in the future.

 

[TT_Stealth]

did you prime your turbo before you actually ran around with it?, you gotta let the oil into the actually turbien housing for lubrication purposes ebfore you run around. Pull the plugs and crank over for a 2 minute period ( in increments or your starter will burn out). Then see if that fixes your problem.

 

[olmytsi]

I think yo u also have a led foot besides the fact that 14bs are old.

 

[Sk8er07999]

I think yo u also have a led foot besides the fact that 14bs are old.

HA HA HA :laugh: Well, don't we all? And yes TT stealth I did that will all of the turbo's. Well it's day two and the turbo is still goin strong. I drove it around quite a bit today too.

 

[fastwaytech]

By the way i saw this on the web:

After that I spent about 18 months trying to find a GSX that I wanted (and my father would let me get). I ended up finding a 92 GSX that had only 99k miles and had a new turbo! I bought this car May of 2002. Right off the bat I had trouble with the car. The turbo kept going out on it after a very short time. 2 turbochargers later we discovered that a crucial piece in the cylinder head was missing. This piece channels the oil coming up through the head into another channel that eventually finds its way to the outlet that feeds the turbo.

 

[GTM]

HA HA HA :laugh: Well, don't we all? And yes TT stealth I did that will all of the turbo's.
...

The $64,000 question: Did you learn anything?

Sorry to read about the ticket, youese guys got of find safe proving grounds and learn to back out of it sooner.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[RoasT BeeF]

HA HA HA :laugh: Well, don't we all?

Nope.

 

[Sk8er07999]

Sorry to re-start this thread but the 4th one took a sh!t on me a few weeks ago just hadn't gotten around to posting about it because I was so disgusted and didn't want to admit I had ruined my 4th 14b. Here's what happend this time:

Went to the weekend races and figured I would race someone tonight so I turned my boost up from 16 to as close to 20 as I could get it. It would spike like to 19-20 then drop back to like 16. Well shortly after doing this I raced a few mustangs, beat both of them, then I noticed a wierd sound and the car seemed to lack in the power department. pulled over and reeved the car and heard a scraping sound from inside the turbo. Turned the car off and felt for shaft play and sure enough there is now a decent amount of play. Started it back up and went home the car was still boosting fine at this point just making that scrapping noise. I drove it to work the next day and it was still boosting then on the way home it totaly stoped working and smoked alot. The difference between this one is that I do believe it blew either because:

A: my boost gauge is in accurate and I was running way more boost then I thought, or

B: I do in fact have a oil problem.

But this turbo didn't break the way the past three had. the past three had self destructed twisting shafts and turbine wheels off. Once I even found a thrust bearing and turbine wheel in my exhaust.

So is 19-20 too much boost for a 14b?

Do I have an oiling problem?

Would getting a stainless steel oil feed line from the filter housing fix this problem?

How would I go about diagnosing an oil feed problem?

Of course I have another 14b sitting here that I want to put on but was waiting to get the oil feed line first so any help from you guys would be greatly appriciated. Thanks, Kevin.

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

ANOTHER USED TURBO?

You have no way of knowing wether it's an oil feed problem, or just the fact that you keep buying used turbos.

It's easy enough to buy a new oil feedline.

Then put on another used turbo, crank it up all the way to 20 , drive the shit out of your car, and ruin another turbo

Then post back for more help.

Or you could just buy a new turbo and oil feed line.

I mean, besides the turbo, no other engine failures?

You could take off the valve cover and look where the oil feed line goes to make sure it's not clogged.

Another thing: have you not replaced your feed line this WHOLE TIME?

It should have been done with the first turbo replacement. For sure buy the 2nd. But you actually wait till 3 turbos?

Seems like you are rather short sighted with your turbo installs.

1. Not replacing your oil feed line the first time you replaced the turbo (if you read, search, you would seee it's highly recomended).

2. Buying used turbos: total crapshoot: how many 14B's are there with less then 100K miles? Do you think someone really wants to sell a perfect turbo for $100-$200?

By the way, great troubleshooting: buy used turbo, break it, buy another one, break it, buy another one, break it.....

 

[ddavisaf]

GTM:
14b's with a enough supporting mods can run all day at 18-22 psi can't they?

I've got a buddy up here in ND with me that ran his 14b at 18-20 psi (creeping a little) daily driver and when put his HX35 on his 14b was still okay. And we're talking about months at that boost level. Wouldn't this suggest that there is something occuring in the engine itself 'cause the destruction? Just curious...

 

[olmytsi]

You are either buying really shitty 14bs or something is wrong with ur oil feed or return. I ran my 14b at 20 psi all the time for about 7 months, took it off and it was still solid. And this was a 14b i bought for 100 off a parts car.

Good luck with ur problem.

 

[captd108]

im just wondering as to what kind of oil return line you are using. If it is one of those rubber ones they have a tendency to collapse and bend at the bottom and not let the oil flow freely to the pan causing it to back up into the turbo. I dk if this applies to you but i thought id mention it. Also the 14b i beleive gets its oil feed from the oil filter housing not from the head like you are doing, id recommend putting it back to the filter housing since thats where its supposed to come from anyways. i mean theres still a possibilty of getting 4 bad turbos in a row but i really doubt it. good luck and i hope you get this resolved.

 

[oldman]

Let me give you some suggestions before you try the 5th one.

1. After any of these turbo installs, did you pressure test the intake?

2. How are your pcv and breather routed? Any crankcase pressure issues? Dipstick popping?

 

[Sk8er07999]

ANOTHER USED TURBO?

You have no way of knowing wether it's an oil feed problem, or just the fact that you keep buying used turbos.

It's easy enough to buy a new oil feedline.

Then put on another used turbo, crank it up all the way to 20 , drive the shit out of your car, and ruin another turbo

Then post back for more help.

Or you could just buy a new turbo and oil feed line.

I mean, besides the turbo, no other engine failures?

You could take off the valve cover and look where the oil feed line goes to make sure it's not clogged.

Another thing: have you not replaced your feed line this WHOLE TIME?

It should have been done with the first turbo replacement. For sure buy the 2nd. But you actually wait till 3 turbos?

Seems like you are rather short sighted with your turbo installs.

1. Not replacing your oil feed line the first time you replaced the turbo (if you read, search, you would seee it's highly recomended).

2. Buying used turbos: total crapshoot: how many 14B's are there with less then 100K miles? Do you think someone really wants to sell a perfect turbo for $100-$200?

By the way, great troubleshooting: buy used turbo, break it, buy another one, break it, buy another one, break it.....

Hmm... Last time I checked my bank account I didn't have 1,000 dollars in it or else I would have bought a new turbo.

With every turbo intall I haven't used a brand new oil feed line but I have used a different used one with every turbo.

ddavisaf: That's what I firured too. I had a friend running around at 22+ before with a 14b. didn't smoke and had no shaft play at all when he took it off to upgrade.

olmytsi: Proof that 100 dollas 14b's can last.

captd108: I am using the stock oil return line. And 14b's are feed from the head stock so I figured it would be fine if I left it that way. I did check the return line for clogs and found none but I still cleaned it out anyway before the last turbo install.

Oldman: No I did not pressure test the intake. And yes I do have a problem with my dip stick popping out. Both my pcv and breather tubes are routed to there stock locations. Breather is to the intake pipe and pcv is to the intake manifold.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Or you could just buy a new turbo and oil feed line.

Dont be stupid.

Another thing: have you not replaced your feed line this WHOLE TIME?

It should have been done with the first turbo replacement. For sure buy the 2nd. But you actually wait till 3 turbos?

Seems like you are rather short sighted with your turbo installs.

1. Not replacing your oil feed line the first time you replaced the turbo (if you read, search, you would seee it's highly recomended).

Lets try reading the entire thread before wasting space with things already discussed.

 

[oldman]

Oldman: No I did not pressure test the intake. And yes I do have a problem with my dip stick popping out. Both my pcv and breather tubes are routed to there stock locations. Breather is to the intake pipe and pcv is to the intake manifold.

1. Make sure the pcv is not clogged, I would just replace it with a OEM one anyway. This is very important.

2. I want you to perform a pressure test with the last blown turbo bolted. Open the oil cap during the pressure test and see if you hear or feel air in the crankcase.

A pressure test is a must following any type of work done on the intake tract. You can easily over work the turbo doing WOT with boost leaks, this can very well be related to the fact that you're killing turbos. I also suspect you either have crankcase ventilation issues or pressure is leaking into crank case causing excessive crankcase pressure, leading to poor oil return capacity resulting in failure. I'm not saying this is what it is but since it seems like you have already tried everything else, why not go back to the basics. It hurts to see some one go through 4 turbos in a matter of months. Post back results.

 

[Sk8er07999]

1. Make sure the pcv is not clogged, I would just replace it with a OEM one anyway. This is very important.

2. I want you to perform a pressure test with the last blown turbo bolted. Open the oil cap during the pressure test and see if you hear or feel air in the crankcase.

A pressure test is a must following any type of work done on the intake tract. You can easily over work the turbo doing WOT with boost leaks, this can very well be related to the fact that you're killing turbos. I also suspect you either have crankcase ventilation issues or pressure is leaking into crank case causing excessive crankcase pressure, leading to poor oil return capacity resulting in failure. I'm not saying this is what it is but since it seems like you have already tried everything else, why not go back to the basics. It hurts to see some one go through 4 turbos in a matter of months. Post back results.

Sounds like an excellent idea and makes sense too. I will do so and post back when I get done with the pressure test. Thanks alot old man, Kevin.

 

[oldman]

Thanks alot old man, Kevin.

You're welcome, hope you find something.

 

[imdrax]

Its a good idea to let the engine spin a few cranks with out turning it over when installing a turbo to get oil in the lines. Just pull the plug wires out and turn the key a few times. Also crank the engine with the oil lines unhooked to see if oil is flowing steady.

ok instead of creating a new thread i found this part of this post which is exactly where i need a little guidance. the original T-25 blew on my spyder so i bought a new one. the old one blew an immense(and i mean a LOT) amount of smoke and had more shaft play than any turbo ive ever felt. you could pull it in and out id guess a 1/4 inch and it would move left and right completely against the walls.now after i just installed my new t-25 i wanted to figure out what caused the old one to go out. so once i had everything hooked up i disconnected the feed line at the OFH and left the restrictor in place. i had someone crankthe engine and NOTHING. maybe 2 DROPS of fluid came out during cranking. now i have 2 questions. 1. should i be getting a steady stream or massive amounts of oil pouring out while cranking? and 2 instead of replacing the OFH can i simply plug the restrictor and route the feed line from the head with a SS line. please any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I've got pressurized air coming out of my valve cover breather and PCV. The PCV is clean, the valve cover breather is routed into a catch can, and a line coming from the catch can back to the intake. When I drive, I dont blow out the dip stick, but then again, it takes a little effort to pull mine out anyhow. I havent done a compression test yet, but I have noticed my car not having the power it had the first (very VERY first) time I drove it. I couldnt hold traction in 1st and 2nd. Now I can. My shaft play goes up and down only (for the moment) and its almost 1/2 inch (no exageration) and pukes oil, but does NOT smoke. It builds boost kinda slowly for a 14b, if i switch to high boost i can get 15psi by about 3300-3400 rpm, but close to 5000rpm, it falls back to 13psi. Send me a PM with your Novel of an explanation.

 

[ddavisaf]

It is impossible for your turbo to have a half inch of play up and down. Unless you don't have a turbine wheel left to speak of. There is not that much room in the housing for it.