Kickdown servo shorting out!

[blackbyrd]

Alright, I really need help on this. I'm moving across the country in a week and I'm going to have to buy a new car if I can't fix this seemingly easy problem.
After doing an engine swap in my 1G, and going to shift in any gear other than Park or Neutral, I hear a violent shorting out sound from inside my kickdown servo (used a stethoscope to pinpoint, and unplugging the connector to the servo stops it). It'll short out for about 10 seconds then stop. Visually inspecting it, I cant see the short on the outside so I assume it's inside the servo housing.
I take apart the servo cover, and I find some tranny fluid sitting in there. Well it made sense for a minute that that was the problem, but after spending nearly an hour meticulously cleaning every part inside it, the cover, the connector on the outside, it didn't seem to make a difference.
A few of my auto buddies didn't have a clue, and I'd rather not replace the servo cause the dealer wants an arm and a leg for it, and I need every dollar I can get.
Besides it doesn't make a whole lot of sense how it would go bad just sitting there for a month. It worked fine before.

Has anyone else came across this? Is there anything else it could be? Any suggestions at all?

Thanks everyone!

 

[blackbyrd]

Urgh, so maybe its not the kickdown servo. When i had unplugged it once before, it stopped. Now however it keeps going even with the servo unplugged.
It does stop when I unplugged the PNP inhibitor switch. I took the switch out, took it apart, cleaned it meticulously, cleaned all the contacts, repacked it with dielectric grease. It still does it!!
All of my grounds are good and secure, the wiring harness and wires to the switch are good..

Does anyone have anymore ideas? Please anything..

 

[EagleTalonTim]

are you sure it is not the electronic gear indicator on the transmission right under the shifter cable? It could also be a shift control solenoid shorted out or maybe even burnt out. Get a meter and check the ohms from ground to the Yellow/blue stripe wire and the Orange wire that are in a connector right in front of the transmission mount. They are facing straight up. The ohms should be between .5 and .3 ohms. If you are using an analog meter, be sure to check your meter to ensure the needle goes to 0 ohms when the probes are connected together.

 

[blackbyrd]

Thanks for the reply!
I believe you referring to the electronic gear indicator under the shift cable, is what i was calling the PNP(park neutral position) inhibitor switch.
I'll check out the shift control solenoid, not entirely sure where or what your referring to there is.
I was just unplugging things though, and it seemed to stop when I unplugged the Pulse Generator sitting on top my transmission, right below/next to the shifter and the kickdown servo. Soo, I'm thinking thats my problem now. I'm going to have to take it out and figure out how to test it tonight.

Thanks!

EDIT: Actually I think I was wrong again. It's not a pulse generator, I see both of them. I believe what I'm looking at, thats bad is a solenoid.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

did you ohm them out to see what they read?

 

[blackbyrd]

Yeah I did, I was getting about 21 from ground to the yellow wire, and about 21 from ground to the orange. I already dropped my pan to check all the connections on the valve body and the ground, and they were good.

Maybe i had my meter in the wrong spot. At 20k, i'm getting .03 on both, at 200k, i'm getting .1

From what I can tell from sound, it seems to be coming from the solenoid towards the front of the trans, not the two in the rear. I believe its the Pressure Control Valve Solenoid.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

if that is the case, you should be able to disconnect the shift control solenoids that I was talking about earlier and it will deactivate the pressure solenoid as well. The pressure solenoid is the blue wire that runs into the same plug that has the yellow/blue and orange wires. Hopefully you can get this thing figured out. is there anyway to post a video with the sound in it?

 

[blackbyrd]

Yes i was able to disconnect it and make it stop. And i just dropped my valve body so i cant post a video of what it sounds like now. but it is a really quick solenoid/relay short sound, pretty standard.
I'm hoping the dealer will be able to sell me just the solenoid and not try to sell the whole valve body with it.

Thanks again for all your responses! I really appreciate it.
Ive never heard of these going bad before, is it somewhat common? Do you think there was a root cause for it? Like I said a month ago it was fine, all I really did was an engine swap.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

the solenoids can go out with no warning at all. I had one go out right after I got my car and it took me forever to figure out what the problem was. After replacing the solenoid, my TCU burnt out and I built me a manual shift box to drive with. Ever since then, I have not had any problems with my auto.

 

[blackbyrd]

Ah yeah manual control box's are pretty easy to make. I just ordered all three from IPT for 225. The dealer wanted 115 for one, which I wouldve got if they had faxed me the diagram so I could show them which one. But when I called back the guy hung up on me! Urgh, I hate the dealership, hah.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how it goes in a couple days, I overnighted them.

 

[blackbyrd]

Well it's still doing it unfortunately. Now I have no idea.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

if you can post a video with the sound in it, I may be able to help you identify what it is. If it is not the shift control solenoids, then I would not be able to think of anything else off the top of my head. Have you checked the connections on the frame by the transmission to ensure everything is connected securely? It may be that something came loose and is not getting all the power it needs. I would also check for broken or cracked wires. Kind of out of ideas for now.

 

[blackbyrd]

I checked all the wirring harness i could under the hood, all the connectors. All the grounds on the tranmission housing, all the grounds on the valve body, and all the connectors on the valve body. The sound is coming straight from that solenoid, no doubt. Or something within an inch or so of it. and pulling the connector to it stops it.

I uploaded a video/sound file:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1231571716543242612&hl=en
I didn't crop it, its about half way through it.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

hmm. that does not sound like a short to me. it sounds like a relay that is clicking really fast. have you checked your TCU harness to ensure it is properly grounded and that all the plugs are pushed all the way in? You may also want to check to see if the caps are starting to leak in the TCU. They go out just like they do in the ECU.

 

[blackbyrd]

Yeah I mean its the best i could describe it as a short or a fast relay sounding. but it's electrical and coming from that solenoid. I planned on getting to the TCU tomorrow and following all the lines seeing if I cant find a short or a burnt tcu.
Thanks! I'll post back tomorrow morning with an update.

 

[blackbyrd]

I'm sorry, I ran out of time to work on my car before I moved. I now have to tow it across the country.
My question is, currently I can't get the car out of park (It's a long story, unrelated, my manual valve got bent and wont smoothly operate). I need to have control, like putting my car into neutral so I can roll it on and off a ramp, and steering and breaking (or else I'd just use rollers). My question is, If i drop my valve body and or just the manual valve, will I be able to safely shift into N to roll it? I would just drop my front axles and drive shaft but I fear whatever I use to plug up the holes will come out on a 1k mile journey and risk getting crap in there and damaging it.

Let me know if you have any thoughts.

I hope to put aside a couple hours to take a look at my car within the next few days.

Thanks for all your responses!

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I am not sure about dropping the valve body to get it in neutral and tow it, but I have seen some people who have towed a car too far and burned up the tranny because the front pump is not lubricating the parts in the tranny as they are moving. IMO, i would get a trailer to tow it on if you can. AAA is out of the question for over 100 miles

 

[blackbyrd]

It's a full bed trailer i have. I just need to be able to get it on the trailer and off, and maneuver it, etc. I'm not towing it on two wheels.

 

[mini zilo]

Ok, first things first, that sound is TOTALLY normal. It is definitely supposed to do that, so that is not your problem. I am not exactly sure what makes that noise, but trust me, that is NOT a short, that is normal, it should do that. My car has always done that and my trans shifts like a wonder-box.

 

[blackbyrd]

Wow, really? I can say it never did it before, have had this car for 4 years. If it works fine then great! haha, where were you earlier!? nah i'm joking, i really appreciate it! any input on removing my manual valve to shift into neutral, to get my car on a trailer? is that safe?

I'll find out tomorrow morning one way or another, unless someone chimes in and can convince me it'll damage my trans.

 

[blackbyrd]

Ah, well it worked just fine. Have to get a new Manual Valve (about 5$). To anyone reading this who might drop there valve body!! PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION when your aligning the manual valve and parking prawl, and tightening the valve body back up. I've done this quite a few times and never messed up, but it only took 30 seconds of not paying close enough attention for me to bend mine.

About the noise - I'm still reluctant to believe it's "normal". While it might operate okay, my car never made that noise before for many years, nor have I heard another automatic or DSM do that, and I believe more people would've stepped in here and said their car makes that sound as well, if it were "normal". I will be checking my TCU and wiring within the next few days and report back.

THANKS EVERYONE!

 

[mini zilo]

About the noise - I'm still reluctant to believe it's "normal". While it might operate okay, my car never made that noise before for many years, nor have I heard another automatic or DSM do that, and I believe more people would've stepped in here and said their car makes that sound as well, if it were "normal". I will be checking my TCU and wiring within the next few days and report back.

THANKS EVERYONE!

It is normal. You just cannot hear it when the car is running. I noticed it when my car was in my garage and it was very quiet. Just the ignition was on, and I shifted into drive and heard that noise, it is normal.

 

[blackbyrd]

Hmmm, you could be right. EagleTalonTim, can you confirm?

Oh and BTW for 93 up vehicles, the solenoids should be reading 13ohms. 92 and lower is 3ohms.

 

[97GSTAUTO]

Yeah I mean its the best i could describe it as a short or a fast relay sounding. but it's electrical and coming from that solenoid. I planned on getting to the TCU tomorrow and following all the lines seeing if I cant find a short or a burnt tcu.
Thanks! I'll post back tomorrow morning with an update.

Sorry if im late .. But mine makes the same noise. Like a fast click.click.click.click. I can only hear it if I pay attention and im close to a wall.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I never noticed on mine, but my TCU is fried and I drive only with the manual shift box I made.