1G Is This "Resurfaced" Head Usable?

[thejollyrancher]

So I bought a head from a used on here advertised as resurfaced, and resurfaced it was. Ive attached pictures of what it looks like. The grooves are some deeper than others, and the deepest ones barely catch a fingernail to put it into perspective. Does this head look usable?

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[bduran1220]

Nope I wouldn't use at all. When I had my head decked before I paid I checked it with a new feeler gauge and straight edge.

 

[motomattx]

I've seen worse work with a composite gasket, no way would that go over with a mls though.

 

[thejollyrancher]

Nope I wouldn't use at all. When I had my head decked before I paid I checked it with a new feeler gauge and straight edge.

I was worried Id hear that . Resurfacing here is just something I cant do easily. I was hoping some copper spray on a composite gasket would fix the issue.

I've seen worse work with a composite gasket, no way would that go over with a mls though.

Ya I dont have an MLS. Gonna go with a composite and some copper spray.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

I was worried Id hear that . Resurfacing here is just something I cant do easily. I was hoping some copper spray on a composite gasket would fix the issue.



Ya I dont have an MLS. Gonna go with a composite and some copper spray.

You need to know how much was taken off so you don't have valve clearance issues. Also if too much was taken off, you can raise compression and create knock depending on your tune. Just watch out for that. Especially if you previously used an MLS gasket as the crush height is much less than the composites. Watch these for your education:

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[911gdsmboostin]

Looks like a chip got cough in the cutters our surface machine has had that happen or the trip broke but it looks like a chip being it starts and stops what you could do is get a sanding block and higher grit sand paper and touch up the surface lightly we do that with alot of heads and haven't seen problems with the ppl who don't surface and that dosent look that bad may not good enough for MLS but I wouldn't be worried with a Composite gasket I wouldn't even use copper spray

 

[911gdsmboostin]

You need to know how much was taken off so you don't have valve clearance issues. Also if too much was taken off, you can raise compression and create knock depending on your tune. Just watch out for that. Especially if you previously used an MLS gasket as the crush height is much less than the composites. Watch these for your education:

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I am currently using a head that was cut pretty good I'd say pretty close to what he's using with stock valves and stock bottom end granite I'm using .020 over pistons my C.R. was 7.76:1 which is within factory spec using a composite felpro gasket which was .i think it was .053 thick or less maybe and valve clearer you need ..035 from top of piston which most are dished plus if the block wasn't cut using stock stroke should leave you .010 in the hole at least this is what my stock motor has I'm assuming his would be close same deck hight and so on but I believe he would be okay

 

[thejollyrancher]

You need to know how much was taken off so you don't have valve clearance issues. Also if too much was taken off, you can raise compression and create knock depending on your tune. Just watch out for that. Especially if you previously used an MLS gasket as the crush height is much less than the composites. Watch these for your education:

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Sweet. I just went through those and Ill run those tests on my head and see how it goes.

Looks like a chip got cough in the cutters our surface machine has had that happen or the trip broke but it looks like a chip being it starts and stops what you could do is get a sanding block and higher grit sand paper and touch up the surface lightly we do that with alot of heads and haven't seen problems with the ppl who don't surface and that dosent look that bad may not good enough for MLS but I wouldn't be worried with a Composite gasket I wouldn't even use copper spray

I could try that out as a last ditch effort. If I do have to go that route, what grit would you recommend?

 

[bastarddsm]

80 then 180. Youll need to dissassemble the head though. I'd run it as is and see what happens. If your not going to have it set on kill, it will be fine. I wouldn't use copper coat though.

 

[thejollyrancher]

80 then 180. Youll need to dissassemble the head though. I'd run it as is and see what happens. If your not going to have it set on kill, it will be fine. I wouldn't use copper coat though.

Im gonna be reassembling it anyway so i might as well. Why would you avoid copper spray ?

 

[911gdsmboostin]

I think our common paper we use is 80 I believe but I'd end with like 240 maybe if your worried just use light pressure steel can take more aluminum clogs sand paper up quickly and copper spray is un needed for that cope spray if focused more for copper head gaskets and isn't really needed for what you are doing plus I can't see using copper spray on a composite gasket makes no sence you don't need the gasket to stick it's a seal it self and does it job granite you buy a decent one.

 

[BogusSVO]

The head was cut on a rotary broach, like a VanNorman 570 or blockmaster

Not a bad finish for one of those machines on aluminum.

A composite HG should seal on what surface you have.

I would suggest that you do oil port mod 1 tho.

 

[keltalon]

I wouldn't never recommend using a belt sanded head on a boosted engine even with a composite gasket you are asking for problems on top of a already problematic engine. If I were you I would take it to a machine shop and have it surfaced with a cutter you seem to have several thousands more before you hit the service limit indicator. If you are concern about compression don't be I am running 10 to 1 on my engine and even on pump 93 oct I see zero knock at 25 psi. Better yet you can get a hks 1.6 stopper head gasket to make up the difference of cleaning up that belt sanded mess . If you are still not comfortable using it let me know I will take it off your hand.

 

[BogusSVO]

@keltalon , The head was NOT belt surfaced, look at the machining pattern left on the head, it is a repetitive arch cut. It fits better with a rotary broach.

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They cut much better on cast iron than aluminum for the most part.

Also the bump in the circle is not a service limit point, If you cut to that you are way past any accepted service limit.
New head thickness is 5.200
FSM allows for a combined .007 stock removal from the block and head
and AREA allows for .015 from the head
Making min head thickness FSM 5.193 and AREA 5.185

 

[keltalon]

@keltalon , The head was NOT belt surfaced, look at the machining pattern left on the head, it is a repetitive arch cut. It fits better with a rotary broach.

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They cut much better on cast iron than aluminum for the most part.

Also the bump in the circle is not a service limit point, If you cut to that you are way past any accepted service limit.
New head thickness is 5.200
FSM allows for a combined .007 stock removal from the block and head
and AREA allows for .015 from the head
Making min head thickness FSM 5.193 and AREA 5.185

Well dale I am going to be honest with you I am no machinist but I must say there are a lot of dsmers running heads way past the service limits then including myself if that bump is past the limit. I haven't noticed any ill effects thus far. But I will purchase the head if he doesn't want it he can use those funds towards the purchase of another one.

 

[Chumpaumpalumpa]

I would suggest that you do oil port mod 1 tho.

Would that happen to be this one? http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.341028/
Also check these videos out:

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[thejollyrancher]

The head was cut on a rotary broach, like a VanNorman 570 or blockmaster

Not a bad finish for one of those machines on aluminum.

A composite HG should seal on what surface you have.

I would suggest that you do oil port mod 1 tho.

Sweet. Will do. Thanks!

Would that happen to be this one? http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.341028/
Also check these videos out:

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I started watching all those videos last night and I got super carried away haha. Ill probably do the more common oil port mod and maybe just clear out the oil galleries a bit but not bore them out.


Just an update, the seller was very cooperative and sent me some money to get it resurfaced as it was originally advertised. So Im going to get that done.

 

[darknezz7]

Wow I would never use a surface like that. Mine always come back mirror for $45....

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[keltalon]

Sweet. Will do. Thanks!




I started watching all those videos last night and I got super carried away haha. Ill probably do the more common oil port mod and maybe just clear out the oil galleries a bit but not bore them out.


Just an update, the seller was very cooperative and sent me some money to get it resurfaced as it was originally advertised. So Im going to get that done.

Yeah do the oil port mod and get it surface and man you will be okay there's a lot of people here who knows what they are talking about and will give many suggestion if you are able determine which rounte to go , based on these suggestion then you will be okay in this dsm game.

 

[keltalon]

Wow I would never use a surface like that. Mine always come back mirror for $45....

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Now that's a good looking surface there my friend!

 

[911gdsmboostin]

Wow I would never use a surface like that. Mine always come back mirror for $45....

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Mirror finish surfaces are only recomonded for MLS head gaskets we have surfaced hundreds of decks and heads for years and never once had a head gasket issue even a ery small amount that went the best similar to the op head surface but alot of ppl now all want mirror finish because they all believe that's the correct way.

 

[darknezz7]

Well I've never had an issue using mirror finish on composites, but yes we went mls, block was decked too.

I think for mls is should be under 20 ra and for composite 20-50

 

[911gdsmboostin]

I don't think theirs anything wrong with a mirror finish just stating I believe their a misconception of the idea it's nessary for everything to have a mirror finish to be good other then the MLS gaskets it's not really called for expect for prefferances

 

[briansmith]

Ah hell give it to me. I'll slap it on my spare block with a MLS and boost it till it pops I've seen worse run on crap builds and they held up. I ain't scared

 

[911gdsmboostin]

You are a trooper my friend