Is it worth buying a VPC????

[JOEY A]

So im going to pick up a eprom and have it chipped for injectors that im going to run blah blah

Im going to find another AFC, and then my freind is going to sell me his VPC for cheap..


Now im going to assume this should be a good street setup, im not going to run a 42R or somthing crazy...but I am looking for 450whp or more if I can...


I know people are quick to say DSM link, but I dont see a problem using this combo if im getting a good price on it....


My freind went 10.9s with just a VPC in his supra, so I have faith in them

 

[pboglio]

I've run a VPC with DSMLink, still have it in the car, but its disconnected. I'm running the 2g chip (stock 450cc injector/fuel pump upgrade chip). Comparing my logs the other night, my car was significantly faster with the VPC in place. Partly due to the VPC leaning out the motor like crazy and from the MAF removal.

I personally didn't like the idle oscillations, throttle tip in stumble, and very lean a/f ratios that it caused. The other thing I didn't like is I couldn't log airflow anymore on the datalogger since the VPC sorta calculates airflow, which would be fine but then it chops the airflow/rev value at 2.44 g/rev*s. It underestimates airflow by a good 3-4 lb/min on my setup. YMMV.

 

[AndrewD5418]

The VPC is the thing that allows you to vent, correct?

Since you're going to be going with an EProm. Why don't you read up on converting it to speed density, with eprom..

http://www.labattz.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15380

 

[pboglio]

Yeah, you can vent with it. Though I think on a 2g with the recirc tube the way it is, I doubt venting buys anything.

 

[JOEY A]

I saw that, and really dont feel like doing all that....I mean im picking it up for 80 bucks etc...and later on ill get link..

People have gone 9s on it etc so it cant be that bad

 

[Maglin]

The VPC is old and outdated. It worked and worked well for race cars. It's not very street friendly. In a race car you have usually 2 condtions. Idle and WOT. So you don't have to worry about cruise nor really lean tip-in.

As said before. If you are going with an eprom then use Nick's SD code, Spend your money from the VPC for the MAP sensor and IAT that it would require. I've not used his code but I know a few that have and they said it works great. Very street friendly. Their is a reason the VPC isn't being made anymore. It was replaced with much better equipment more or less stand alone EMS and the fact that they can be had are reasonable prices now.

 

[steve]

People have gone 9s on it etc so it cant be that bad

You'll be buying at least $80 worth of headaches. Most of the guys I know that were running VPC's are running GM MAFs or gone full speed density on a standalone. EVO MAF is another option for 1G guys not making >600 hp.

Steve

 

[pboglio]

GM Maf (i.e. MAFT) also has its fair share of problems. Speed density also ain't cheap. For $80 its a mega cheap option to try out.

 

[2deep]

VPC is PROVEN to work!!! If you can still get the VPC chips you require there should be no reason not to get it.

 

[Maglin]

VPC is PROVEN to work!!!

Yeah it works. But it's outdated. Their are much better options out their. Hell if you don't want to mess with the SD code and don't want the expense of a stand alone then get a MAFT-Pro. It's SD and with a WBO2 you can run target AFR open loop. But it's more of an in between solution of VPC and standalone. Everyone I know that used to have a VPC is now running something else weather it be a GM-MAF or stand alone. The VPC was out before the MAFT and was pretty much the only option. VPC/GCC combo's was the hot ticket back then. Now it's just more headache and less performance than what's on the market now. For a DD that is anyways. As said before in a race only car it can do a very good job.

 

[dsm-onster]

GM Maf (i.e. MAFT) also has its fair share of problems. Speed density also ain't cheap. For $80 its a mega cheap option to try out.

intake temp is clamped. baro is clamped. the ecu sees a hertz frequency that lets the ecu calculate (based on the clamped values) an accurate mass flow. How's that a problem. The inaccurate clamping has been remedied. We all know know how to CALIBRATE w/ dsmlink, . . . or ems or other standalone. If we dont' have the ability to calibrate, then we're running it as a piggy back and the airflow is scewed anyway. . . It's consistant. And it uses an oem reliable unit. Reliable up to 60 lbs/min. . .

For the rest. . .
Older stuff has always proven or disproven itself. Hindsight is still 20/20. Is there not a better way? Enter DSMap, MAFT blowthru, MAFT-Pro, EMS & Haltek & etc, soon dsmlink w/ SD. If you don't want to triffle w/ the trinkets then don't vent. . . It's all vanity. . .

P.S. A K&N, open air canister, dodge garage mod 1G valve, and enough boost to back up the noise is pertty loud. . . Enough for my full 3inch turbo back w/ single resonator (no muffler or cat).

 

[JOEY A]

Yeah it works. But it's outdated. Their are much better options out their. Hell if you don't want to mess with the SD code and don't want the expense of a stand alone then get a MAFT-Pro. It's SD and with a WBO2 you can run target AFR open loop. But it's more of an in between solution of VPC and standalone. Everyone I know that used to have a VPC is now running something else weather it be a GM-MAF or stand alone. The VPC was out before the MAFT and was pretty much the only option. VPC/GCC combo's was the hot ticket back then. Now it's just more headache and less performance than what's on the market now. For a DD that is anyways. As said before in a race only car it can do a very good job.

This isnt a daily driver, and I have a freind that went well into the 10s with a VPC only...So I dont understand why people are saying its pointless to go with?

VPC with a AFC and a eprom chip should work nice?

 

[dsm-onster]

Glad you got your answer on whether it's worth buying or not. ???

I know a few people who've gone into the LOW 10s w/ a stock 1G MAF, too WTF . . . ???

 

[JOEY A]

Hes a very good freind of mine, so ive seen what it can do many times and its a nice peice for what it is..

I was just wondering what DSM people thought of it


I called up Sound Performance, they said they still look for them for low buck setups for customers...

They said its a nice peice to pick up and use...so looks like im getting it

 

[dsm-onster]

Yup. A good running Toyota Supra is an awesome car !!!

 

[JOEY A]

Yup. A good running Toyota Supra is an awesome car !!!

Wish they werent so damn expensive

 

[rhamlinii]

The VPC is the thing that allows you to vent, correct?

Since you're going to be going with an EProm. Why don't you read up on converting it to speed density, with eprom..

http://www.labattz.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15380

Can dsmlink do anything like this?

 

[JOEY A]

DSM link still uses the stock eprom ecu......

 

[dsm-onster]

DSMap is a decent way to run speed denisity w/ a stock eprom ecu. . . It is not a piggy back. You're actually in the eprom doing work. Seams the ECU is better set up for speed density than maf any how (according to the guys who've build DSMap). See DSMap.net. It has a studderbox setup and seams pretty user friendly. There are tables (binaries) set up that will probably let you start your car right up and begin tuning.

The new DSMLink V3 WILL definately have a pure speed density setup (closed loop & open loop). Also, it will have a direct plug and play for the GM MAF (incase you want to run blow thru). But, if you can go speed density w/ V3 then why bother calibrating a gm MAF. Unless you like maf setups (easy to upgrade things that change engine VE).

I can hardly wait for it to come out. Stock ecu, Speed density, GM MAF Plug&Play, a memory module (don't need the laptop or palm to record a run), closed loop wideband control plus all the other user friendly goodies (NLTS, Antilag, Nitrous control, studder box, etc).

 

[Maglin]

I believe when the MAFT was mentioned as having problems it's about it's random drop out issues. I've see it on my car. I was pushing around 44 lbs/min and it just went all screwy. It's pretty dangerous if you are putting a lot of power down. I also know 3 people that have blown their HG's because of a MAFT randomly dropping out.

 

[JrCRXHF]

DSMap is a decent way to run speed denisity w/ a stock eprom ecu. . . It is not a piggy back. You're actually in the eprom doing work. Seams the ECU is better set up for speed density than maf any how (according to the guys who've build DSMap). See DSMap.net. It has a studderbox setup and seams pretty user friendly. There are tables (binaries) set up that will probably let you start your car right up and begin tuning.

The new DSMLink V3 WILL definately have a pure speed density setup (closed loop & open loop). Also, it will have a direct plug and play for the GM MAF (incase you want to run blow thru). But, if you can go speed density w/ V3 then why bother calibrating a gm MAF. Unless you like maf setups (easy to upgrade things that change engine VE).

I can hardly wait for it to come out. Stock ecu, Speed density, GM MAF Plug&Play, a memory module (don't need the laptop or palm to record a run), closed loop wideband control plus all the other user friendly goodies (NLTS, Antilag, Nitrous control, studder box, etc).

i really want to play with this DSmap it looks really cool and simple if they only would make it so that the flex fuel sensor would work as a input then i would be set i really don't care about the nitrous control and a studder box is all i need.

 

[dsm-onster]

I believe when the MAFT was mentioned as having problems it's about it's random drop out issues. I've see it on my car. I was pushing around 44 lbs/min and it just went all screwy. It's pretty dangerous if you are putting a lot of power down. I also know 3 people that have blown their HG's because of a MAFT randomly dropping out.

Ah! ok. . . This may be a little off topic, but has anyone gotten to the bottem of this thing? Is it a translator thing? or a MAF sensor thing? I think it would be a translator thing, personally. I've seen many lt1/ls1 guys go crazy fast on these sensors and none have brought this up.

You know. I've had my hg mysteriously pop on me too. I ws logging w/ my scanmaster (alway plugged in). But I wasn't viewing hertz counts nor was I logging in dsmlink (can't log w/ dsmlink and scanmaster). Nothing was out of the ordinary. Suddenly, I started recording knock. I couldn't get out of it in time for the oem HG.

 

[Maglin]

It's a translator thing. The GM MAF is just a temp sensor for the most part. It's a heated wire that is cooled by air. This changes the resistance of the wire and the internal circuitry output's a Hz value. I don't know why the MAFT does this but it's really only the DSM model that has this issue. I've never heard anything with the GNX guys complaining about theirs. I even used the more expensive 3" MAF to get away from the venturi effect cause from going from 2.5" to 3.5". I did note a few times where I had dropped MAF readings. It only takes a split second to ruin your day.

I'm going to sell mine. Going with a MSII now. Using a 4 BAR MAP I should be ok. I'm looking for around 45 PSI on my current setup. If I can manage to get a full season out of this motor I'll be happy.

 

[Maglin]

DSMap is a decent way to run speed denisity w/ a stock eprom ecu. . . It is not a piggy back. You're actually in the eprom doing work. Seams the ECU is better set up for speed density than maf any how (according to the guys who've build DSMap). See DSMap.net. It has a studderbox setup and seams pretty user friendly. There are tables (binaries) set up that will probably let you start your car right up and begin tuning.

The new DSMLink V3 WILL definately have a pure speed density setup (closed loop & open loop). Also, it will have a direct plug and play for the GM MAF (incase you want to run blow thru). But, if you can go speed density w/ V3 then why bother calibrating a gm MAF. Unless you like maf setups (easy to upgrade things that change engine VE).

I can hardly wait for it to come out. Stock ecu, Speed density, GM MAF Plug&Play, a memory module (don't need the laptop or palm to record a run), closed loop wideband control plus all the other user friendly goodies (NLTS, Antilag, Nitrous control, studder box, etc).

Well I don't really see eye to eye with DSMLink. They only came out with their announcement of going SD after Nick has posted up his SD code to the DSM-ECU group. Also someone was also working on native GM MAF stuff as well in the same group. Everything they announced was after those came out in succession. First was the GM MAF and then I heard DSM Link was going to do that. Then the SD code was released to the public for FREE and then DSMLink announced it. If they are using others work then I would at least like to see them give the credit where it's due. Only thing that needed to be done for the GM MAF was to plot a cure from the stock maf to the GM MAF and then build a MAF table to compensate for the GM's higher frequency count. And of course clamp Baro and IAT.

Personally I prefer tables over sliders for tuning. It's more precise, but does require a lot more knowledge to tune.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well I don't really see eye to eye with DSMLink. They only came out with their announcement of going SD after Nick has posted up his SD code to the DSM-ECU group. Also someone was also working on native GM MAF stuff as well in the same group. Everything they announced was after those came out in succession. First was the GM MAF and then I heard DSM Link was going to do that. Then the SD code was released to the public for FREE and then DSMLink announced it. If they are using others work then I would at least like to see them give the credit where it's due. Only thing that needed to be done for the GM MAF was to plot a cure from the stock maf to the GM MAF and then build a MAF table to compensate for the GM's higher frequency count. And of course clamp Baro and IAT.

Personally I prefer tables over sliders for tuning. It's more precise, but does require a lot more knowledge to tune.

DSMLink guys have anounced that V3 will have full timing and fuel table access aswell. I don't know if ECMTuning is hyjacking other's code so much as just countering their competition. . . Who knows. . . I do prefer table manipulation too. I'm used to PCMX, LiveEdit, TunerPro, Hondata, etc. . .

It seams us DSMer's want it easy or want it free.