1G Idle Position Sensor on BBK TB?

[seminoles2005]

Wanted to know how you check a IPS if its bad or not? I figured you would use a volt meter set to read the resistance on the ohms setting.

I unplugged the wire connected to the ips and connected the positive wire of the volt meter to it and the negative to a ground. I could not get a good reading because the numbers were erratic and would not stay at a specific number. Jumped to really high numbers back to 0 and would never stay steady. When i pulled the throttle cable the reading stayed at 0.

I've been having idle problems and wanted to know if this could help eliminate a problem ive been having.

 

[brandon1261990]

look inside the intake there should be two holes or maybe one take ## finger and put it over the holes ## car has to be running to do this see if ## idle gets better only put ## finger over 1 hole at a time hope this works

 

[seminoles2005]

Not really sure what youre talking about with putting my fingers inside the intake while the car is on? I have a bbk 75mm throttle body and had a machine shop put thicker welds around the original throttle stop and they tapped the hole so i may use the original ips the dsm's use but just wanted to know how to check this one sensor if there is a way.

 

[steve]

The ECU put a voltage on the green wire to the IPS. The IPS grounds the wire when the throttle is closed so the ECU sees no voltage on the wire.

Since you don't have a factory TB you'll need to adjust the IPS in yours so that the switch is closed and grounds when the throttle is closed and open when the throttle is just slightly open. How far open is something you'll have to play with.

 

[seminoles2005]

How do you go about properly setting an ips? I know ill have to adjust my tps everytime i change the ips level when i turn in/out but should i also ground the same plugs as when you set the biss?

The idle surges but when the wire is removed from the ips it instantly raises and stays at a high rpm and when i checked the resistance of my ips the numbers i got jumped up and down like how my idle acts. Just not sure how to get a solid reading from the ips and what the number of resistance it should be at.

Would you recommend grounding the throttle body by using a wire attached to one of the throttle body bolts to the intake to a good ground?

 

[steve]

The IPS resistance should be 0ohms when the throttle is closed and infinite when the throttle is open. You have to remove the green wire to measure the resistance because there can't be any voltage on something you trying to measure the resistance of.

The throttle body needs a good ground for the IPS to work.

The fact that your surging implies that the ECU is seeing the throttle close via the IPS. It also says that your engine wants to idle too high either because of air leaks or you don't have the throttle body adjusted correctly. Make sure that when you install the IPS you aren't opening the throttle up. On a 1G the IPS is also the throttle stop but your bbk should have it's own.

Unless you have a ISC working the terminal for setting the BISS isn't functional. It would cause the ECU to position the ISC in it's default position and hold it there so you could adjust the BISS.

 

[seminoles2005]

On the bbk throttle body i have it allows me to use the stock isc but it has no biss screw to adjust high/low idle. I grounded a bolt that makes direct contact to my throttle body to my car's frame but my ips sensor is still giving my some jumpy numbers with the throttle closed.
Is the volt meter suppose to be set to read ohms resistance? The numbers arent very high but it just kind of runs up and down from 0.3-2.5 on the volt meter and reads 0 when the throttle cable is pulled. So im getting the opposite results for the ips and im not sure what else there is to do?

 

[steve]

Is the volt meter suppose to be set to read ohms resistance? The numbers arent very high but it just kind of runs up and down from 0.3-2.5 on the volt meter and reads 0 when the throttle cable is pulled. So im getting the opposite results for the ips and im not sure what else there is to do?

Yes, you have to use the ohms scale to measure resistance.

You need to note how your meter works when the probes are touching and when they are not touching. Those are the closed (shorted) and open values.

I'll go check the operation, I may have swapped the states now that I think about it.

 

[GooeyGus]

Is it possible to clean out the idle switch? Mine isn't making very good contact and still has high resistance (not an open circuit, but not a solid ground either) even when triggered.

99% of the time I get a perfect 750rpm idle, but every once and a while the idle will go to 1100 for no reason, and as soon as I barely tap and release the throttle it goes down to a perfect 750. I'd like to take it apart and clean the contacts if it's possible.

 

[steve]

I checked one and it closes (short, continuity, 0 ohms) to ground when the throttle is closed and opens when the throttle is open. Yours may read some higher ohms (<1k ohms) if it's dirty and not making a good connection. I was correct before.

The setting of the IPS is critical and the factory manual says to not touch it. It does say that if it's been moved to set it 15/16 of a turn in after it establishes continuity.

 

[seminoles2005]

So when the throttle is open and the throttle stop is not pressing the ips closed it should read 0 and when the throttle is closed and the stop is against the ips it should read a low consistent resistance? Or opposite of what i just stated?


Would it be bad to just remove the ips and have a throttle stop(bolt) and leave the car idling very high and just drive it like that? Would it just burn more gas? Id like to just drive the car around a little but wasnt sure if i would do much harm. I know some built 1g dsm's dont even have this sensor so im curious as to what those guys do.

 

[steve]

So when the throttle is open and the throttle stop is not pressing the ips closed it should read 0 and when the throttle is closed and the stop is against the ips it should read a low consistent resistance? Or opposite of what i just stated?

Yes, you have to use the ohms scale to measure resistance.

You need to note how your meter works when the probes are touching and when they are not touching. Those are the closed (shorted) and open values.

People who don't run a IPS are likely running DSMLink or a standalone.

 

[seminoles2005]

I just hooked my datalogger and im using mmcd to show different values my car is putting out. The isc reads 0.0% during its surge. Does this mean the isc is maxed out in closing the throttle body from any excess air passing by? I know it shouldn't read 0%, I dont think the isc is bad because i checked the pins and i get right around 30 ohms across the isc and with the isc removed and the plug attached i had someone turn the acc. in the car to on and the isc will move in and out slightly.

Im going to try adjusting the ips some more and add another ground if it will help the continuity of resistance the ips puts out.

 

[steve]

The isc reads 0.0% during its surge. Does this mean the isc is maxed out in closing the throttle body from any excess air passing by?

Yes. When you have a FIAV the ISC will close all the way down during warm up because the FIAV provides all the bypass air needed but since you don't have a FIAV you shouldn't have too much air and the ECU should open up the ISC to keep the car idling.

Try warming the car up and then go through the set BISS process using whatever idle adjustment you have. If you don't have a chip with a modified idle speed or DSMLink then you need to adjust the idle to 750 when warm.

Make sure you not holding the throttle butterfly open (or open too much since the std adjustment will hold it open very slightly on a stock TB) with the IPS.

 

[seminoles2005]

I have a keydiver chip to set my idle at 850.
Added another ground to my ips and now with the throttle closed i get 0.00 resistance instead of the erratic 0.3-25 range resistance it use to jump around to when the plate was shut. But when i pull the cable to open the throttle body the volt meter goes straight to 0 as if it has no connection to anything anymore.
I have 12 volts to the green wire that attaches to the ips.

The car idles high but stays solid at 1900 rpms when its a cold start up. Once it warms up it instantly goes to surging. I tried grounding the plugs the way you would set the biss but the car will not stay on its own. It sputters and just dies on me.

This surging crap is driving me insane.

 

[GooeyGus]

Just as a note to help anyone who might be reading this thread:

I took my idle sensing switch off today. I didn't move the nut which places it in the correct position. This is critical, because there is an exact position the switch needs to be in (like steve mentioned earlier).

So, I tested the switch. The least amount I could get it to read was about 900ohm, and that was maybe once every few times I pressed the switch. I tried to find a way to take it apart to clean it, but it looks pretty solid.

So finally I took some brake clean and just sprayed it into every opening I could find and let it dry out for an hour.

When I came back, resistance went to less than 1ohm when the switch was pressed.

I put it back on the car and it's idling perfectly again.

 

[steve]

I have a keydiver chip to set my idle at 850.
Added another ground to my ips and now with the throttle closed i get 0.00 resistance instead of the erratic 0.3-25 range resistance it use to jump around to when the plate was shut. But when i pull the cable to open the throttle body the volt meter goes straight to 0 as if it has no connection to anything anymore.
I have 12 volts to the green wire that attaches to the ips.

That's good. If the reading with the throttle closed is the same as when your touching the probes together and the same open as when your not touching them together than the switch is good even if the adjustment isn't.

If your green wire has 12v on it when disconnected, then connected to the IPS you should see close to 0v when the throttle is closed and 12v when the throttle is opened a little.

The car idles high but stays solid at 1900 rpms when its a cold start up. Once it warms up it instantly goes to surging. I tried grounding the plugs the way you would set the biss but the car will not stay on its own. It sputters and just dies on me.

This surging crap is driving me insane.

Surging is simple, solving it isn't. It's caused by the engine idling too high but because of how little difference we talking about in airflow between working correctly and surging it's a pita to find exactly where the leaking is happening.

When the car is warm what does the logger tell you the ISC steps are?

Did you replace the original BBK idle screw with the IPS?
Does the BBK TB have a BISS type adjustment?

Sometimes this seems like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[seminoles2005]

The resistance when the throttle is closed on the ips seems like it wants to put out a reading but its just too low to show anything so it appears to be at 0.00 on the volt meter, when the throttle is open the volt meter appears to have no reading at all and goes to 0 which is the same reading displayed when the meter isnt connected to anything.

When the car starts the logger shows around 30% on the isc and it slowly goes to a lower and lower reading until the car starts to surge when its fully warmed up and the isc reading is all the way to 0.00%

I replaced the original bbk idle screw with the 1g ips
The bbk doesnt have a biss to adjust anything, just screwing the ips in more is the only way to adjust it. But as of now the ips is only screwed in as little as possible just to get the switch pressed.

 

[seminoles2005]

anyone else have any more ideas i can try?