The Central Hub for DSM Community and Information

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. This is where the DSM platform history is documented and archived. Log in to help us in our mission, and to remove most ads from the browsing experience.

HX40 upgrade, BAE 7 blade 62mm compressor wheel

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Heh oh wells, then the 8 blade will just sit on the .70 BEP T3 housing unchanged.

Unless getting the HX40 turbine to work on the 8 blade isn't too much of a hassle. Otherwise I'll just sell it and buy another 7 blade HX40 pro for my other mighty max.

I wouldn't buy into the whole running out of turbine flow deal. Holsets have huge turbines for the size of compressor they come with compared to anything else we run.

I've also seen people make big gains on swapping out a hy35 for a HE351...but according to some people they shouldn't be any better.
 
I'll just leave this here.


You must be logged in to view this image or video.


Standard GT3582R with a .82 T3 turbine housing, by the way. It's mine and it's already been repaired.


Right, because spool is all that matters and total airflow production has nothing to do with anything at all. If what you're stating were true every aftermarket turbo made for our cars would have a TD05H turbine.

What you're forgetting is that any time a wastegate is open, a good portion of exhaust flow is going to exit through the wastegate. On a setup running low boost, someone may benefit from a larger compressor if they don't mind the lag because the biggest portion of the exhaust energy is wastegated.

Now let's turn up the boost to 38psi and channel all of that additional exhaust energy directly at the small turbine wheel. Exhaust backpressure builds, EGT's go up, the car gets harder to tune, and you're making less power while doing more damage to the turbo by running that magical wheel combination.


Hell I have a customer right now who specified a .63 Garrett housing on his 7-blade HX35 and it turned out to be a complete dud, only gaining a few additional HP over a T04E60 Garrett that it replaced. The excessive turbine restriction giveaway is that the same wastegate setup which controlled boost fine on his 60-trim suddenly wouldn't stay closed with the HX35. The turbine backpressure had increased so significantly that the wastegate had a hard time staying shut as the RPM's climb.

...but what the hell do I know. I just f*ck around on the internet all day. :rolleyes:

First of all I would fire the guy who tuned your car! Second of all I don't have time to sit here and argue with you.
Td05h is way smaller then hx35 and can not be compared. Every turbo has its limitations and just because a turbo can build 38 psi doesn't mean it will produce more air flow and will be efficient and should be ran that high. Look at most of the garrett turbos, their turbine wheel is almost always smaller the the compressor wheel, for which reason I'm not a big fan of their product but they still work.

So since you know all about this turbo stuff why did you rip off your customer and had him waste his money on something that you knew ahead of time will be a waste :thumb:

Everything you said in this post is nothing new to me. I just gave you a fact about this hx35/40 that I put together and you are still arguing with me grabbing on to a string to save from drowning ;)
 

Attachments

You must be registered for see attachments list
I wouldn't buy into the whole running out of turbine flow deal. Holsets have huge turbines for the size of compressor they come with compared to anything else we run.

I've also seen people make big gains on swapping out a hy35 for a HE351...but according to some people they shouldn't be any better.

From a turbo newbie perspective I could see the wheel swap being something that could produce a nice airflow upgrade, but I haven't seen much in terms of actual numbers for HX35/40 setups on DSMs. It would be nice to see some airflow numbers, EGTs, and HP/TQ results from said swaps (I have yet to see any even in the Diesel world).

So until then I'll just defer to Justin since he's the resident expert. Really, the 8 blade is just collecting dust since I bought the 7 blade HX40 pro for my main project and I have a buddy who wants it so I'll just buy another 7 blade for my Son's Mighty Max.
 
First of all I would fire the guy who tuned your car!
Didn't come from my car, I bought it that way as a rebuildable core.
Second of all I don't have time to sit here and argue with you.
Then why insist on starting shit in this thread and just about every other thread you've posted in recently?
Td05h is way smaller then hx35 and can not be compared. Every turbo has its limitations and just because a turbo can build 38 psi doesn't mean it will produce more air flow and will be efficient and should be ran that high. Look at most of the garrett turbos, their turbine wheel is almost always smaller the the compressor wheel, for which reason I'm not a big fan of their product but they still work.
...completely contradictory of your HX35/40 statement. :boring:
So since you know all about this turbo stuff why did you rip off your customer and had him waste his money on something that you knew ahead of time will be a waste :thumb:
It was built to fit a specific application requested by the customer with zero knowledge of how it would perform. I assumed it would be fine judging from the results I've had with my HY35 users, but it wasn't. Live and learn....you can't win the lottery if you don't play.
 
Then why insist on starting shit in this thread and just about every other thread you've posted in recently? [/QUOTE said:
I don't start shit, I make a statement and some seem to want to argue with it. I don't speak from reading what someone else said but from experience.

...completely contradictory of your HX35/40 statement. :boring: [/QUOTE said:
12cm2 is not a small housing therefore you can get away with a larger compressor wheel. I don't like garrett compressor wheels because of a big inducer and small exducer. Inducer determines how much air the turbo can take in and the exducer determines how much air it can compress and how much boost the wheel can push. As you know in the dsm world holset turbos seem to be kicking ass. Gt35r compressor wheel is 61.4/82 vs holset hx40 60/86, hx40 will run circles around gt35r

It was built to fit a specific application requested by the customer with zero knowledge of how it would perform. I assumed it would be fine judging from the results I've had with my HY35 users said:
Yes I know what you're saying and believe me I've been down that road before, sometimes you won't know something for sure until you try it yourself. So far in most of my posts I've included my personal experimental facts. Maybe I get a little lipy at times, well that's because I get frustrated with some of the comments people make vs the fact I just provided. I apologize if I insulted someone, all I'm trying to do is get some of my personal experimental fact out to you guys. Isn't that the whole point of these forums.
 
12cm2 is not a small housing therefore you can get away with a larger compressor wheel.
That works in some cases, but not all. For example I wouldn't recommend such a setup for a 2.4 guy looking to run high boost....the 70/60 HX35 turbine still won't be able to keep up with the compressor unless you go to a 14cm or 16cm housing, at which point you may as well use the HX40 turbine and a single-scroll T3 .70 housing which Dave and I have already proven to 151mph trap speeds. I actually feel there's room to grow with that setup as well. ;)
I don't like garrett compressor wheels because of a big inducer and small exducer. Inducer determines how much air the turbo can take in and the exducer determines how much air it can compress and how much boost the wheel can push.
Absolutely true, and I feel the same. This is likely why FP stretched the exducer of their HTA3586 out to 86mm and saw huge gains. :thumb:
Yes I know what you're saying and believe me I've been down that road before, sometimes you won't know something for sure until you try it yourself. So far in most of my posts I've included my personal experimental facts. Maybe I get a little lipy at times, well that's because I get frustrated with some of the comments people make vs the fact I just provided. I apologize if I insulted someone, all I'm trying to do is get some of my personal experimental fact out to you guys. Isn't that the whole point of these forums.
Most everything I've posted here has been proven as well. We know the .55 Bullseye housing is already restrictive enough using the HX35 turbine, so putting a HX40 compressor on such a turbo would be a horrible idea....but I agree it's a completely different situation with the factory 12cm housing to a certain point.

I appreciate the apology, and I definitely don't want to seem as though I come off as confrontational....I'm just here to post what I've learned from my experiences as well.
 
Well I got some dyno results with that new wheel. Car made 563 awhp and 421 torque right about 30-31 psi on pump gas and water/meth. About a year and a half ago when I was still running the 6 blade the car made 580 at 31 psi but there were few things different from last time.
Last time it was on a mustang dyno and the pulls were made in 3rd gear right about sea level, this time it was a dynojet dyno about 500 feet higher elevation and the pulls were made in 4th gear. The first pull we tried to do it in 3rd gear and the car started to spin tires so the other 2 pulls we had to do it in 4th. I tried to crank up my mbc but for some reason which I didn't know at the time I couldn't get more boost so 31 was the highest I could get. Today I pulled my wastegate off and found out that I have a weak spring in it, I replaced it not to long ago thinking that it would be a better spring but turns out it was worse, so I'm going to replace it with a different spring and go do some pulls.
Aaron (tuner) at Englishracing where I dyno the car told me that last time they could of had the calibration off on the mustang dyno so maybe my car never made 580 but who knows, I don't know much about dynos and how one is different from the other. I wish Englishracing wasn't 200 miles from where I live otherwise I would be there next week running like 36-37 psi, maybe in few months I'll run up there again so ill keep u guys posted.
 
Spool is a bit slower, maybe 200 rpms or so. On the 6 blade hx40 boost would start climbing fast after about 12-13 psi and this new wheel about 14-15 psi. It's hard to tell if it pulls much harder at the top end when the car is making 500+ whp but I did see about 3-4 lb/min more air flow at the same boost level (30psi)
 
After I changed the wheel my pos laptop crashed on me and I lost all the logs from my old wheel but I did get a chance to make few comparisons and I remember logging about 4 lb/min more at the same boost as 6 blade 60mm wheel. I still have my old wheel and cover and since I don't have to take the turbo off the car to change the wheel maybe one day when I'm up to it ill throw the old wheel on and do some testing. Honesty so far I'm not disappointed.

A while ago when I was doing few changes to my exhaust manifold and I ended up using a 60mm wastegate which I already had laying around in my garage. I know its a bit overkill but I had it so what the hell :) its a wastegate that I bought on eBay for a different project but didn't end up using. It's actually a nice piece, well made. I replaced the diaphragm in it with tial one since that's the only thing that I questioned on it. So far no problems with the wastegate. The thing that I didn't think about when I put this wastegate on is that it had a big valve which creates allot of surfaced area for the exhaust pressure to push against. It's about 4 square inches so at 25psi of exhaust pressure there is 100 pounds pushing on that valve. I didn't realization all this till this whole wheel upgrade even though it did fix my boost drop at 30-31 psi which I talked about in the begging of this post, but I still got the boost drop if I tried to run more boost. I didn't think that 2 springs in the wastegate wouldn't be enough. So the other day I put a 3rd spring in my wastegate and tested it with my home made tool. Wastegate started to open at 32 psi. I put it on the car and turned my mbc way down just to see what's the lowest boost it will run. Between the boost and exhaust pressure it ended up holding a steady 29 psi. Cranked up my boost controller a bit and 35-36 psi seems to be a walk in the park :)
 
For some reason I can't upload pictures to the thread off my phone so I added a picture of this new 62mm wheel next to 60mm wheel to my photo gallery, so if any of you want to check it out its there. So far I put about 800 miles on this new wheel with no issues. I didn't have the turbo balanced as an assembly but its working good so far. I'll try to add a picture later on my friend's computer.

Ok here are some pics of the two wheels and the new cover
 

Attachments

You must be registered for see attachments list
Looks to me like the weaker aftermarket casting found in some knockoff wheels....the three lead weights for balance correction in the hub area of the wheel behind the compressor nut is a dead giveaway to the country of origin (China). A true test would be if one of the fins were to get bent a little....would it allow straightening or snap off easily. I think they're on to something, they just need to refine the production process a little to bring it up to OEM Holset standards and they'll have one hell of a product.

Cover looks great, though....doesn't seem to be a cheap casting that is full of air pockets.
 
Well I don't think I want to bend one on purpose to find out :) so far I pushed that wheel to 39 psi and it hasn't come apart, it felt pretty heave and the blades seem to be heavy duty and no all thin and flimsy. I've been checking that wheel for any blade flex and it still looks like when I got it. Maybe not all China stuff is garbage though I will agree most of it is. As long as it holds up I think the design is there, I did see 3-4 lb/min more with that wheel.
 
I'm curious how much it would extend the map over the factory 6-blade....we've logged a solid 72 lb/min from Dave's 6-blade @ 38psi when the intercooler wasn't leaking. :coy:

If this wheel could potentially increase the map to the mid-70's, then it may be worth buying one to send to Sumalaya Enterprise with the intent of being mass-produced in billet. :D
 
I couldn't tell you what lb/min its flowing right now cause my VE table is below 100 which I've learned throws off the lb/min, maybe one of these days when I finish up some of my other projects I'll put the 6 blade wheel back on and do some back to back pulls at the same psi to see how much one flows more then the other. I wish the awd dyno wasn't so far away from where I live otherwise I would have done that on the dyno.
 
Looks to me like the weaker aftermarket casting found in some knockoff wheels....the three lead weights for balance correction in the hub area of the wheel behind the compressor nut is a dead giveaway to the country of origin (China). A true test would be if one of the fins were to get bent a little....would it allow straightening or snap off easily. I think they're on to something, they just need to refine the production process a little to bring it up to OEM Holset standards and they'll have one hell of a product.

Cover looks great, though....doesn't seem to be a cheap casting that is full of air pockets.

Just for reference I have had an oem holset inducer blade snap off as well on a 6 blade hx40.

Thanks for the pics, I'll be ordering mine within the next week.
 
I spoke with Bob at BAE about that wheel being made in China and he said that they make those wheels here in the US, he also told me that they have a billet 7 blade wheel 60/86 a direct replacement for a hx40 6 blade for about $250. They don't advertise it on their site cause they have been making it only for some company but its available up on request. He said also that they are working on a big shaft hx40 that will use 76/64 exhaust wheel with a bigger shaft that will except a bigger compressor wheel like hx52, he said that they are working on a new compressor wheel for that set up, 67mm and a 72mm, it should be out in a month or two so that will be interesting to see. I asked him how much would it cost to get that turbo with out an exhaust housing and he said that it should be around $550-$600 dollars.
 
I spoke with Bob at BAE about that wheel being made in China and he said that they make those wheels here in the US.
Not trying to start a debate...but I find that seriously hard to believe at the price the wheels are being offered. Add to that all the emails in terribly broken english that I received when I was having issues with that place a year or so ago. ;)
 
Well for all you know they could have someone who is not very fluent in english work for them and that's not uncommon in our country ;) and just because you make good product don't mean you have to overprice it like some of the companies I know, not going to mention any names but $400 dollars for a 60mm wheel or $2000+ for a 54mm turbo might ring the bell :)
 
Very interesting this thread is. I am currently debating on what wheel I want to upgrade to from the 8-blade it has now.

So far my options are:

This BAE 62mm wheel
OEM 6-blade wheel
Billet 7-blade wheel from Pure Turbos (supposedly has a smaller hub for more blade surface area.)
Billet extended tip T04z wheel from Pure Turbos, supposedly flows 85lb/min...
 
Add Value - Be Respectful - No Trolling - No Misinformation - Participate Often!
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community

Build Thread Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top