2G How to run a small 16g

[MasterMatt209]

I purchased my GSX not long ago and have only drove it a handful of times since then. The car came with a small 16g, AFPR, and an aftermarket BOV installed. Everything besides that is stock. I’m pretty sure you need bigger injectors, fuel pump, and a tune to have it running properly right?

What do I need to run this turbo?

 

[buddahboost]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-dsm-upgrade-paths.486217/

This is a good read. You CAN run the turbo as is, a long as you reach your right foot not too step on the fun pedal. You got to have a way to control upgrades injectors such as ECMlink or a black box flashable ECU. Other wise you will suffer putting around town depending on the size injectors you run

 

[MasterMatt209]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-dsm-upgrade-paths.486217/

This is a good read. You CAN run the turbo as is, a long as you reach your right foot not too step on the fun pedal. You got to have a way to control upgrades injectors such as ECMlink or a black box flashable ECU. Other wise you will suffer putting around town depending on the size injectors you run

Okay that’s kinda what I figured, upgrade injectors, fuel pump, and all that fun stuff. So should I avoid driving it as is?

 

[buddahboost]

Drive it but don't get into boost that much. You'll experience fuel cut which is like hitting a brick wall ,too much air and not enough fuel.

 

[doubleclutch]

It really depends on if you can keep the boost low. I would expect the boost to creep on an unported 16g with stock 2g o2 housing. You need to at least get a boost gauge and a wideband before even trying to push it. You have no idea what the car is doing otherwise.

 

[Dstarperformance01]

I had a small 16g on stock injectors and stock mass air sensor. Keep the boost at around 15psi and you will have no issues. At about 18 psi+ you will hit fuel cut. As others have stated you need a boost gauge and wideband so you can monitor and if it's gets too lean you can let out of it. I would recommend at least a rewired stock fuel pump.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Walbro 255, 550 injectors, boost gauge and wideband then done.

 

[Dstarperformance01]

Captain obvious is correct cough cough, I mean @Vegas smith is correct

 

[Vegas Smith]

Captain obvious is correct cough cough, I mean @Vegas smith is correct

Hey gotta get the post count up to increase my credibility. Nobody mentioned the 550s though

 

[Dstarperformance01]

You can run it on the 450's just need to know the limits

 

[EC17PSE]

well I have been forced to put my E3 16G on and im still on stock injectors and maf currently, but my pump is a 255 and rewired, so i set the actuator to 13psi and using spring pressure to be safe. i have read its do able on the stock fuel system but as everyone said above it needs to be monitored correctly, about to start it up tomorrow so shall see how it goes but i followed some old threads on here and it seems fine

 

[doubleclutch]

Nice thread jacking.

 

[chrysler kid]

Mass air flow sensor can still understand the basic concept of the new turbo, air flow through the mass air flow sensor + air temperature + fuel + spark + timing = boom

However by adjusting the air flow with a bigger turbo there is now a bigger boom. On a small scale this is still acceptable as the 16g does not necessarily exceed the equation.

When you over boost the car will sense the mass air flow sensor readings exceed maximum accepted values, however when you combine the added heat of the added air flow mass, the extra ignition due to the lack of perceived fuel, the car can be at it's limits. So because the mass air flow sensor can not perceive added density of the extra suction value it can not understand the extra strain. Suddenly the boom is much hotter and can be much more catastrophic

To change the mathmatical equation of air+temperature+timing+fuel+spark=boom you need tuning software. The ECU will cut fuel when it senses too much suction and you will hit fuel cut, the scary concept of that is it won't cut fuel from added volume of extra heat and you melt a piston because the ECU doesn't know better.

TLDR: the mass air flow sensor can understand the equation of the 16g to about 13-15 psi. You risk alot more by compounding extra heat into the extra air flow and the 16g through a stock 2g sidemount should not be abused at more than 13psi because of all the added in variables of all that extra air flow. I'd say even 13psi on a sidemount I wouldn't want to be boosting it in rush hour traffic stop light to stop light

My biggest gripe is why they put the air intake temperature sensor before the turbo. The equation gets so much cloudier when you assume actual intake temperatures from pre-intake air readings. Combine a cold air intake onto a fmic and the temperature readings preturbo are almost wildly innacurate to detonation temperature values

 

[MasterMatt209]

Wow thank you all for the feedback, I didn’t get on here until just a little while ago and very happy for all of the information here. The car does have a boost gauge and A/F gauge, how do I know if it’s a wideband or narrowband?

I feel stupid for asking but even after I do all of that the car does need tuned right?

 

[EC17PSE]

So today i tested the car on my E3 16G thats modified and with 13psi WG spring pressure and stock fuel injectors it was safe all the way to redline! I dont know how it might have been with a stock pump or non rewired but if you got a pump at least that will help,

Just expect it to not work aswell as the boost is really low for a 16g. But at least the other threads were right and it is full safe to use a 16G at close to stock ish boost levels (mods dependant)

 

[jkuga]

Wow thank you all for the feedback, I didn’t get on here until just a little while ago and very happy for all of the information here. The car does have a boost gauge and A/F gauge, how do I know if it’s a wideband or narrowband?

I feel stupid for asking but even after I do all of that the car does need tuned right?

A narrowband normally just says if you're running lean, optimal, or rich while a wideband actually tells you what air to fuel ratio you are running. The wideband is the one you want a narrowband really doesn't give you enough information to work with.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

2g maf anyone???
Love SD myself.

 

[buddahboost]

Just for reference, when I had a 16G, walbro 255, stock injectors and stock side mount on my 1G ; I would hit fuel cut at about 18psi.

You would wasting money for a tune if you still have more mods to do such as cams, bigger injectors, bigger turbo.. I'm assuming you need a tuner since you don't have the abilty.

What's your budget, you gotta start some where with that. Theres a lot of dsm videos where they list their mods. That should give you an idea of what's needed and how far that can take them

You need to let that turbo breathe too with an Intake pipe, turbo back exhaust.

Post a pic of the A/F Gauge

 

[chrysler kid]

Wow thank you all for the feedback, I didn’t get on here until just a little while ago and very happy for all of the information here. The car does have a boost gauge and A/F gauge, how do I know if it’s a wideband or narrowband?

I feel stupid for asking but even after I do all of that the car does need tuned right?

Yes, the formula for horsepower must be modified

The ECU needs to be calibrated to adjust for the extra air flow. Even with a new high flow fuel pump, a new regulator, and new wideband, the ecu still expects a certain air speed value of a T25 turbo. The tuner must calibrate the ECU to maximize air flow calculations for the new turbo.

If you feel adventurous you can try this tuning yourself and the wideband air fuel gauge is how you can track your ability to calibrate the air fuel mixture while turning up the turbo boost.

 

[chrysler kid]

Also you guys should not base fuel cut in a calculation of if your stuff is running good or not. Fuel cut is the ECU determining that the air flow is too much for the system to adjust to, based on a scale set for a smaller turbo

Imagine the long term damage done riding the lean side of the stock ECU for an extended period of time. Add in neglected maintenance and it's why I don't care to buy modified dsms