Horsepower W/o Turbo?

[cookmeup272]

You have to look at it the other way....why havent people modded a N/A 420a.

 

[Fotowntalon]

Hell that's an easy one. First off the 420a is heavily modded, in the neon and avenger world, although there are differences in the over all engine. As for the DSM 420a, most people rather go the 4g63 route (not trying to start a VS. war). Simply saying, when you have such a reputable engine as the 4g63, and especially because it comes in AWD and is just as cheap and in most cases just as easy to find, most people will go the 4g63 route, leaving a small population of 420a DSM tuners.

As for potential, that remains to be seen. At the moment the 4g63 offers way more options, research, and is overall proven. The 420a DSM. low options, very very low research done, which means its much less proven. If you could go back in time, even the 4g63 was a "slow car" and now look at it. People took a chance on it did the work and everything, and now its very cheap and easy to make a 4g63 fast. I firmly believe in the future the 420a will as well after more people come around and forefather it in.

 

[wkmitsu]

Well he could do the 2.4 swap, it takes a little modification but it's a fairly easy swap. I am not talking about the Spider engine! I am talking about the Cloud, Sebring, ext motors. Just thought I would throw that out there before all you 4g63 guys jump down my throat

I know a guy that did that swap and it definitely wasn't worth it in my opinion.

Have some custom 13:1 compression pistons made, along with the rest of a full build. Do a four individual throttle body setup on custom intake runners, use race fuel, and throw a 100 shot of nitrous at it, then you'll have a mean NA car.

 

[Pichimo]

I have had my eclipse for over a year now and ive just now had time to do major engine work. I was thinking of changing out the pistons and gettings stage 2 crower cams. what should i look for in the piston though, i wasnt heavy on the in depth motor tech when i took my auto classes in high school. i had the opportunity to go to UTI but passed it to join the military. i love this site and learn more each time i log on. let me hear your inputs guys! =)

 

[Shake_Zulla]

I know a guy that did that swap and it definitely wasn't worth it in my opinion.

Have some custom 13:1 compression pistons made, along with the rest of a full build. Do a four individual throttle body setup on custom intake runners, use race fuel, and throw a 100 shot of nitrous at it, then you'll have a mean NA car.

Well I'm glad to know that you "know a guy" who did the swap and it wasn't worth it in "your opinion" cause all the people I've read about doing it says it was one of the best swaps that they have done. Not trying to bash on you but the purpose of these threads is to give information to a person so they can form their own opinion's not adopt the opinions of people who don't even own a 420a.

 

[MathixPerforman]

Something you could consider is doing an srt4 swap. I've only seen 1 but it Worked well. If you can find a wrecked srt4 it might be worth looking into.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Something you could consider is doing an srt4 swap. I've only seen 1 but it Worked well. If you can find a wrecked srt4 it might be worth looking into.

You might want to read this before thinking about swapping the srt-4.
2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic #61727 - SR-T 4 engine in a 2GNT?

It's not a matter of dropping the motor straight in. It would be better to get the 2.4l I mentioned before and swap the srt-4 rods and pistons into it. If you found a wrecked srt-4 you could only use the block and even then you need some modification. Most everything you would get from the wrecked car (head, manifold, turbo setup) does not transfer to the 2gnt format. Not saying it isn't possible but it is a more common swap to do the 2.4l found in the sebring and buying pistons and rods.

 

[crazyboy81]

I've read alot of 420A stuff so I will lay it out as subtle as possible . 420As need less HP to hit a speed goal than 4G63Ts. Bullettdsm is a little over 200hp and hit's mid-low 13s and I think he has more HP now than he's posting on his profile You need just as much in upgrades and cost to "safely" reach that goal with a 4G63T. Remember when not in boost that low compression motor has very little to offer while the N/A guy is speeding ahead. Also, the 2.4 build is in no way easy but it's not impossible. It can be a cheap alternative since you can use alot of SRT4 parts and believe it or not they are cheaper than the 2.0 parts. Their piston/rods/pins altogether are like $80 apiece. Tha's cheaper than any aftermarket cost for a whole set in the end. If OP is asking if he can go fast without turbo I say he can. With 11:1 compression as an idea to start with and megasquirt he can acheive what he wants.

This is the best thread I ever read pertaining to the 2.4l cloud car swap.
2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic #112724 - Collective 2.4L Swap Information

 

[Shamrokk]

theres is the mivec 4g63t swap option to be thought of... it should drop into a rs/gs easier than a gst/gsx becouse of driver side tranny... however the 420a is a much better motor than most would believe. basic bolt ons and a cam would really surprise you at whats its capable of. and dont worry too much about hp numbers... i assure you that very few motors within the same horsepower range actually run faster

 

[bullettdsm]

Bullettdsm is a little over 200hp and hit's mid-low 13s and I think he has more HP now than he's posting on his profile ]

Lol, yes he does.

I'm actually at 219.4whp and 13.1 in the quarter. It was such a little difference from what I had (and I actually am disappointed because, imo, I should be in the 12's), that I never posted up all the stuff needed to change.

As for the 2.4 swap, I like the idea. A little more torque and you can actually get a little more power out of the 2.4 than the 2.0. I won't go that route because of my self-imposed rules of maintaining the 2.0. Basically, any thing that I have on my engine can be bolted onto a stock 2.0 (with very limited "adjustments"). Internal or external parts.

MB

 

[necrotopsy]

2.4 srt-4 swap it!

 

[crazyboy81]

You can't swap a srt-4, you can use the N/A 2.4 then use srt-4 internals.

 

[ilco187]

evo swap it since the new 4g63 is faced the same as a 420a

 

[primestick]

I have a question in the link to "how hard" some people made it seem that stroking the motor no longer makes it a 420a N/A... how dose that work its still the same block with no turbo. You could easly "not cheaply" build quite a bit of hp with a 2.4 sroke.

 

[necrotopsy]

you can't stroke a 420a that much. even with bored .040 over and the stroker kit you BARELY get 2.2L. plus when you stroke the motor your rpm limiter goes down (maybe that matters to you).
and a stroked motor is still N/A . its only not N/A if it has a turbo or supercharger.

i know that the srt4 motor hasn't been done. but to say you CAN'T do it is not true. you can do whatever you want with the right amount of money.

 

[primestick]

you can't stroke a 420a that much. even with bored .040 over and the stroker kit you BARELY get 2.2L. plus when you stroke the motor your rpm limiter goes down (maybe that matters to you).
and a stroked motor is still N/A . its only not N/A if it has a turbo or supercharger.

i know that the srt4 motor hasn't been done. but to say you CAN'T do it is not true. you can do whatever you want with the right amount of money.

I never said it wasnt N/A sroked... i was aksing why others implied that stroking it some how made it not the same motor. and the stoke the 4g 1.8l to 2.4 why cant we...

 

[Locke]

I'm so bored. You will see.
For anyone that may not understand what stroking and N/A imply, and how the terms can interact read on - for anyone else, please be on your way:


The stroke of an engine is the distance between TDC and BDC, and is set solely by the crankshaft. Using the word "stoke" as a verb or adjective, such as "a stroker motor" or "stroke it", suggests increasing the stroke of your current engine by changing it's internals.

"N/A" or "NA" is an acronym for Natually (or Normally) Aspirated, meaning the rotating assembly draws in all of the air charge from it's own vacuum by way of the intake stroke. "Forced Induction" is the opposing option meaning that the air-charge is pushed* into the cylinder, rather than drawn in, by other means such as a turbo- or supercharger. While the use of nitrous isn't technically forced induction, it is often lumped in with forced induction as it is an artificial means of supplementing the motor's oxygen requirements.

Stroking a motor is done to increase displacement and crank throw. The greater crank throw increases the mechanical advantage the pistons have over the crank and allow for greater torque generation. Given a 2.0 that is not spinning like a Honda, the 2.4 will make more HP in comparison. Stroking a motor does not change its method of aspiration in any way.

The "2.2" stroker kit actually changes the rotating and reciprocating assemblies to one with a larger crank throw.

The SRT4 and cloud car 2.4's are complete engines. Using a 2.4L motor shouldn't be considered "stoking", rather it is a swap. The typical 2.4 swap done by 2gnt owners is actually a hybridized swap since the upper half of the factory 420a is used on the 2.4 bottom end, and many parts from many different vehicles and engines are often used.

Anytime the block is changed, it is considered a swap. The SBC 383 is a common example: If you had a factory 350 in your vehicle and you install a 400 crank, you have a stroked 350. If you had a factory 400 in your vehicle, and you switch the 400 block for a 350 block, you have a 383 swap.

A motor can be both stroked and naturally aspirated, as well as stroked and boosted.


[SIZE="-1"]*I'm quite aware that forced induction pressurizes the air charge prior to ingestion, and that it is actually the difference in pressure between the cylinder during the intake stroke and that above natural pressure in the head created by the turbo that causes flow into the cylinder. I'll just use the word "push" for simplicity.[/SIZE]

 

[primestick]

I'm so bored. You will see.
For anyone that may not understand what stroking and N/A imply, and how the terms can interact read on - for anyone else, please be on your way:


The stroke of an engine is the distance between TDC and BDC, and is set solely by the crankshaft. Using the word "stoke" as a verb or adjective, such as "a stroker motor" or "stroke it", suggests increasing the stroke of your current engine by changing it's internals.

"N/A" or "NA" is an acronym for Natually (or Normally) Aspirated, meaning the rotating assembly draws in all of the air charge from it's own vacuum by way of the intake stroke. "Forced Induction" is the opposing option meaning that the air-charge is pushed* into the cylinder, rather than drawn in, by other means such as a turbo- or supercharger. While the use of nitrous isn't technically forced induction, it is often lumped in with forced induction as it is an artificial means of supplementing the motor's oxygen requirements.

Stroking a motor is done to increase displacement and crank throw. The greater crank throw increases the mechanical advantage the pistons have over the crank and allow for greater torque generation. Given a 2.0 that is not spinning like a Honda, the 2.4 will make more HP in comparison. Stroking a motor does not change its method of aspiration in any way.

The "2.2" stroker kit actually changes the rotating and reciprocating assemblies to one with a larger crank throw.

The SRT4 and cloud car 2.4's are complete engines. Using a 2.4L motor shouldn't be considered "stoking", rather it is a swap. The typical 2.4 swap done by 2gnt owners is actually a hybridized swap since the upper half of the factory 420a is used on the 2.4 bottom end, and many parts from many different vehicles and engines are often used.

Anytime the block is changed, it is considered a swap. The SBC 383 is a common example: If you had a factory 350 in your vehicle and you install a 400 crank, you have a stroked 350. If you had a factory 400 in your vehicle, and you switch the 400 block for a 350 block, you have a 383 swap.

A motor can be both stroked and naturally aspirated, as well as stroked and boosted.


[SIZE="-1"]*I'm quite aware that forced induction pressurizes the air charge prior to ingestion, and that it is actually the difference in pressure between the cylinder during the intake stroke and that above natural pressure in the head created by the turbo that causes flow into the cylinder. I'll just use the word "push" for simplicity.[/SIZE]

since this seams to be aimed at me some how... I KNOW ALL THAT. what Im saying why are others on the other post saying that "stroking" the 2.0l 420a some how makes it a different motor. Its still the same block, and still n/a. So if the 2.2l stroker kit is only changing the stroke you can still bore it.

 

[necrotopsy]

you're asking us to explain why other people are stupid and un-informed?

 

[bullettdsm]

I'm so bored. You will see.
For anyone that may not understand what stroking and N/A imply, and how the terms can interact read on - for anyone else, please be on your way:
excellent layman's explanation

Lol, I knew what was coming in that first line; "I'm so bored"

what Im saying why are others on the other post saying that "stroking" the 2.0l 420a some how makes it a different motor. Its still the same block, and still n/a. So if the 2.2l stroker kit is only changing the stroke you can still bore it.

You're kinda dealing in semantics. I think what you're seeing is "when someone strokes a 420a its no longer a 2.0." What they are saying is, when you increase the stroke, you are changing its displacement from 2.0 to 2.2 (the most common stroke change). Thus it's no longer a 2.0.

MB

 

[Locke]

@Primestick
I didn't direct it at anyone, specifically. What I did do though, is misinterpret/misread "I never said it wasnt N/A sroked... i was aksing why others implied that stroking it some how made it not the same motor." as.. I dunno... something else.

I have had a nap since then, and am far more lucid now.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

First of all...

evo swap it since the new 4g63 is faced the same as a 420a

Fail. Yes it faces the same direction, and a b18 faces the same direction as a 4g63 doesn't mean it slides right in. Personally I like being able to close the hood on my car and not having to cut a hole in my firewall (thus making it a non-firewall ). It's been done, however, there are serious issues.

 

[WORPeclipse]

There is srt-4 motor in and runnin in a 420a car. He is still workin the bugs out with wiring and ecu. Its having a false rev limiter at 2500rpm. HPe is also runnin the pt cruiser turbo intake mani. He stated bolt in wasnt hard but wiring was a bit*h and the ecu he is runnin right now is a auto one and is whats leadin to the low rev limiter. He had to cut the hood for the intake mani. Some stuff could be custom fabbed to make things easier. Here is the link to it.

SRT-4 swap

 

[crazyboy81]

There is srt-4 motor in and runnin in a 420a car. He is still workin the bugs out with wiring and ecu. Its having a false rev limiter at 2500rpm. HPe is also runnin the pt cruiser turbo intake mani. He stated bolt in wasnt hard but wiring was a bit*h and the ecu he is runnin right now is a auto one and is whats leadin to the low rev limiter. He had to cut the hood for the intake mani. Some stuff could be custom fabbed to make things easier. Here is the link to it.

SRT-4 swap

Yeah have fun with that

First of all...



Fail. Yes it faces the same direction, and a b18 faces the same direction as a 4g63 doesn't mean it slides right in. Personally I like being able to close the hood on my car and not having to cut a hole in my firewall (thus making it a non-firewall ). It's been done, however, there are serious issues.

Unfortunately I too had this same notion about the Evo motors... luckily reality and some research wised me up hehe

 

[sick95talon]

Stock 4g63s on 8 psi with a 8.5:1 comp rto =215 HP. stock 420a has a 9.5:1 comp rto add 8psi boost u get 286 HP at the flywheel . hitting 300 HP on a 420a is easy with a good tune and a turbo and a lil more fuel y spend all the crazy money if u don't have to mine pushes more than 300 but has fist fills of 100$ bills thrown at it just turbo it u will be happy with the outcome I promise