help me choose pistons and rods!

[B1ackout]

heres my setup I wanna run


scat h beam or eagle rods
wiesco (not sure what CR to run) pistons
20g turbo (yes I know theres gonna be lag but I plan to upgrade injectors later)
750cc injectors(93oct pump gas)
dsmlink and maft with 3" gm maf
and possibly a magnus street intake manifold

please help me out guys

heres my build thread nobody has been posting on http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/470540-92-eclipse-turbo-5spd-swap-400hp.html

 

[Talyn]

For a 20g on 93 octane, I would stick around 8.5:1 or so CR, and I'm assuming its a td05 hybrid since most are, in which case it really shouldn't have that much lag, and in any case, injectors aren't going to do anything about turbo lag...Also 400hp is the most you can expect out of a 20g, and thats at the crank not at the wheels, I don't think that setup is going to be enough. You will probably need a FMIC, upgraded cams+valvesprings, and bigger throttle body in addition to that intake manifold and maybe some more revs to get that 400, again based on the assumption that it is a td05 20g. They flow somewhere between 40-44 lbs of air a minute(I have not found the actual spec, but based on the 16gs which share the same housing but use a smaller wheel, a 20g hybrid should be somewhere in this range). 1 lb of air a minute= ~10hp.

Oh and I forgot, a whole exhaust system upgrade, but you should really have that done before messing with any of the above anyways, or at least everything but the manifold, as a lot of people don't get that till they put a bigger turbocharger on, because the two choices have to be compatible.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Good start.

 

[boost97gst]

Stock 2g IM(not sure about 1gs, probably near same) have supported over 650whp. I would port match and debur the IM, nothing more to worry about. A smim is indeed better but not necessary.
I agree with Tayln about the valvetrain. Upgrade to 272s, springs, retainers, guides etc etc....and if you have the $ get new stainless valves. +1mm if you like, not necessary but may come in handy down the road. Not much more expensive anyway.
I would also get adj cam gears if you get new cams. Ive heard HKS 272s are the only drop in cams, if thats of any help to you. Every cam needs a small amount of adjustment. Turbos dont like overlap, so that lope most people chase and think sounds cool at idle may not be ideal for making power throughout the entire rpm band. Just a side note.


As far as your main question about CR. Thats really up to you and your future goals for the car. If you want to stay on pump gas and a smaller framed turbo, then by all means go with 8.5 or 9:1CR. If you, like most of us, plan on upping the power to stupid levels eventually and have access to e85 then i would go straight to 10:1 or 10.5:1 CR. People running high compression dont have any complaints and it yields more power per lb of boost along with more torque. Downside to high CR? They dont play well with lower octane and smaller turbos. In a nutshell.

 

[B1ackout]

For a 20g on 93 octane, I would stick around 8.5:1 or so CR, and I'm assuming its a td05 hybrid since most are, in which case it really shouldn't have that much lag, and in any case, injectors aren't going to do anything about turbo lag...Also 400hp is the most you can expect out of a 20g, and thats at the crank not at the wheels, I don't think that setup is going to be enough. You will probably need a FMIC, upgraded cams+valvesprings, and bigger throttle body in addition to that intake manifold and maybe some more revs to get that 400, again based on the assumption that it is a td05 20g. They flow somewhere between 40-44 lbs of air a minute(I have not found the actual spec, but based on the 16gs which share the same housing but use a smaller wheel, a 20g hybrid should be somewhere in this range). 1 lb of air a minute= ~10hp.

Oh and I forgot, a whole exhaust system upgrade, but you should really have that done before messing with any of the above anyways, or at least everything but the manifold, as a lot of people don't get that till they put a bigger turbocharger on, because the two choices have to be compatible. As far as the head goes im wanting to run 272 cams not sure which brand yet, 1mm oversized valve, and not sure what springs to run

im going to get a fmic I forgot to add that. Not sure if I wanna get a magnus intake mani yet because im not really sure how to set it up ive never done a aftermarket intake setup, and im building a custom exhaust for it since I have the resources and im highly skilled in welding. I would like to have a fp green xl or something similar, I want the rotating assembly to be able to handle around 500-600hp

 

[bastarddsm]

Might as well stay stock for that setup. Certainly don't do the scat rods. Get the eagles and have a machine shop check them. Id also stay away from wiseco pistons. Id probably do mahle for your build.

 

[boost97gst]

Why you say stay away from wiseco? Bad personal experience? I could say the same about Mahle pistons but i cant due to the questionable machinist in my case. Please, elaborate. Thanks

 

[donniekak]

Almost every set of standard wisecos I've pulled out of an engine had cracks in the skirt by the pin boss.

 

[B1ackout]

its not staying stock . Your one of those go big or go home type of guys aren't you

well guys Im getting a fp green xl for my build, Im getting a good deal on one, what sized injectors should I look into getting since I only got 750cc's now

 

[Talyn]

that information is already out there.....
Forced Performance Turbochargers: DSM Green XL
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/366003-injector-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.html

 

[bastarddsm]

Almost every set of standard wisecos I've pulled out of an engine had cracks in the skirt by the pin boss.

Exactly, additionally I've never seen a used wiseco, dirtbike, snowmobile, or car, that didn't have the pin tight in the boss from the skirts collapsing. I put JE's in this motor and it's perfect.

 

[nitrouskris]

Arias Pistons I have never in 20 plus years of doing motors had a problem with them. See Video I made. Have stock of the shelf set in are standing mile car. 216MPH without any problems 2 years now

BC Crower rods or K1 rods or Manley rods .. a step above eagle. scat rods are a step above ebay rods

 

[jakeachy]

Arias Pistons I have never in 20 plus years of doing motors had a problem with them. See Video I made. Have stock of the shelf set in are standing mile car. 216MPH without any problems 2 years now

BC Crower rods or K1 rods or Manley rods .. a step above eagle. scat rods are a step above ebay rods

manleys ARE eagle rods, bro.

 

[Phantom DSM]

manleys ARE eagle rods, bro.

Manley and Eagle ESP are actually separate companies..we just happen to notice part numbers are the same in that industry for some odd reason.
Also K1 rods are made by Wiseco.
Arias and JE pistons are at the top in my opinion, but ive been hearing the Wiseco HD version are better than their standard.

 

[nitrouskris]

manleys ARE eagle rods, bro.

Dead Wrong.....Almost all of the H beam rods come from overseas and finished here and each company does what they think is best. Manley is 30 mins from me and I know what they do to there H beam rods and I know what Eagle does to theres. I have seen inside of both.

Manley and Eagle ESP are actually separate companies..we just happen to notice part numbers are the same in that industry for some odd reason..

????? Both have diff part numbers

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Manley on the Left and Eagle on the right.... Notice the center line on the Eagle Rod ???

Also diff you notice how much more the ARP bolts are out of the Eagle Rod

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Notice the the line again

Manley Rods notice where the holes are..

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Eagle Rod notice where the holes are..

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Now beside what you can see in the pics. The Eagle Rods have very small pits and bumps. Now not every Eagle Rod is like this but I have seen it more with Eagle Rods then any other rod out there.


Hope this helps someone and hot that REP button

manleys ARE eagle rods, bro.

Thanks for Posting about something you dont have a clue about...BRO

Posting about something you dont know about or are just guess can cost someone...

 

[B1ackout]

so would you guys suggest me running JE 8.5:1 on manley rods?

 

[Purple_Demon]

Wish I would have known that about Eagle rods.....


OP if you are indeed rocking a Green, make sure to take the time and properly set up the oil feed/drain. You will extend the life of the turbo tenfold.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Scat is the same metallurgical blank as eagle,
$50 cheaper and commes with extra oil holes.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Dead Wrong.....Almost all of the H beam rods come from overseas and finished here and each company does what they think is best. Manley is 30 mins from me and I know what they do to there H beam rods and I know what Eagle does to theres. I have seen inside of both.

????? Both have diff part numbers

Thanks for Posting about something you dont have a clue about...BRO

Posting about something you dont know about or are just guess can cost someone...

My apologies nitrouskris on the part numbers, you are right. I was positive though that the companies are separate and make different rods. Thanks for clarifying and posting helpful pics

 

[boost97gst]

Wait, back to wisecos for a sec, have you guys seen this problem on wiseco HDs? That was THE piston i was planning on using for the build. The 10.5:1. Shit, i may have to look in to another high cr piston if this is the case.

OP, Im sure you can hit your goals on the cheap. Its been done. You can always find a set of 750s or something along that line in the classifieds for 125-150 bucks. Its not going to cost much. If you plan for the future, buy big so you dont buy twice. Take it from someone who has DONE it. It sucks buying 2 sets of injectors when you could have just bought the big one to start with. But, budget is an issue at times and i understand that as well. You got your green, get some inj and youre good to go.

 

[Phantom DSM]

so would you guys suggest me running JE 8.5:1 on manley rods?

Thats a good combination and compression ratio on a 2.0 if your keeping it that way. There are may other factors. Manley has the Turbo Tuff I beam rods, more costly but can handle 700+ hp. The H beam is still a nice rod though, should handle 500-600.

 

[nitrouskris]

Scat is the same metallurgical blank as eagle,
$50 cheaper and commes with extra oil holes.

Extra Holes Yes and now have the ARP 2000 - THEY ARE SOME OLD SETS AROUND WITH THE CHEAPER ARP BOLTS.. But last time I checked the some rods were diff on how thick they were from each other. I had to go thru 6 diff boxes to get for that matched. But for sure are better then Peak Rods

This is what I mean. - '''NOTE THIS IS A MANLEY ROD < JUST USING THE AS A EXAMPLE"""" If I can find pic of the Scat rods I will post.

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[Archer Fabrications]

I said they were the same metalirgical blank, not the same rod. What each company does with the rod is most likely different. But in terms of material their the same.

My scats came with arp2000 2 years ago

If stock 1g rods can go 9.2 o don't see why any forged rod couldn't hold much more. Eagle, manley, scat, any of them should do 1000hp in my mind if the stock 6 bolt has handled what it has.

 

[nitrouskris]

so would you guys suggest me running JE 8.5:1 on manley rods?

JE are $$$ and I you can get a better pistons for less. I would run Arias or Ross. I like BC/Manley/K1 rods

 

[B1ackout]

hmmmm ive never heard of arias, but I have heard people here and there using ross pistons. What does everybody else think? I want to get a majority vote here(I know that's probably going to be hard )