rods and pistons

[Lil Dee]

Okay, new here, new to DSM's I'm trying to rebuild my engine to get 450-500hp. I currently have 6bolt engine, brand new big 16g turbo, boost control gauge, turbo inner cooler not sure what else has been done to the car. I have a manual boost controller. The engine runs well but smokes a little out the exhaust. The guy i bought it from says it could be piston rings. I have been searching threads about the 1g rods and 2g pistons. Are these 2g stock pistons on 1g stock rods? Please help.

 

[Fern-tsi]

I know 400HP is not unheard of in a stock block, But its not going to be cheap or easy. You must have ALL supporting mods and probably won't happen with that turbo.
Your smoke problem could be a number of things, Start with a compression test, then leakdown test. It's hard to say ,It could be your rings, Turbo, Valve guide seals.
My car smoked but had great compression ,ended up being simple valve guide seals.

 

[crusher966]

I think if your shooting for 450-500 you should just upgrade connection rods. Yes it can work but the reliability comes into question. These cars were only designed to hold 210hp. The HX 35 7 fin would be alot easier to create these numbers. The 16g isnt large enough to hold that high of heat or back pressure. As far as the smoke what color is it? Mattering on the color it could either be oil or coolant. Once we know which one it is it should be a little easier to diagnose.

 

[LiquidX]

Find out what the smoke is first and when it does it. Is it at idle or boost? BEFORE you even start to consider going for 450-500hp, get every maitence part taken care of first and learn about the car and how it works. I'm just saying that because you called the intercooler an "inner cooler".

The 1g rod and 2g piston is a good "OEM" replacement. The pistons have a higher compression than the 1g pistons so you get a little more torque out of boost. The 1g rods are also bigger than the 2g rods so they can handle more hp. To make it work you'll need to get them machined to fit as I know that the wrist pins are different sizes. Unless you find a shop that can get them shipped to you ready to install.

The 16g has been up to 400hp but with much support from other mods though but it IS possible. An HX35 will get you there "easier" but you'll still need to get all of the supporting mods regardless.

Let us know what else then.

 

[Lil Dee]

Okay guys thanks for the insights and to LIQUID X sorry about the wrong spelling of intercooler as I stated I'm new to this. Besides go easy... I am a girl. My man is mechanic and he is the one trying to rebuild this car for me. I fell in love with DSM's since I saw the one I bought a month ago. Anywho, yesterday we tried to start the car again and it was not only smoking but rocking too. He opened the valve cover only to discover that the rockers that are supposed to be fitted on top of the lash adjusters popped right off. (about 4-5 of them) Of course it was running very hard and smoking bad. So now I have other issues than just rods and pistons but since we are already in the head once we get to the pistons to see it the rings are good, and the valves are not bent, we are considering the 1g rods with the forged pistons on 264 cams. what do you think?

Will the big 16g hold that pressure/heat? (i don't see me upgrading to a HX 35 anytime soon)
Will DSMLink work with this combo?
How much hp can I get with this set up?

THANKS!

 

[LiquidX]

Okay guys thanks for the insights and to LIQUID X sorry about the wrong spelling of intercooler as I stated I'm new to this. Besides go easy... I am a girl. My man is mechanic and he is the one trying to rebuild this car for me. I fell in love with DSM's since I saw the one I bought a month ago. Anywho, yesterday we tried to start the car again and it was not only smoking but rocking too. He opened the valve cover only to discover that the rockers that are supposed to be fitted on top of the lash adjusters popped right off. (about 4-5 of them) Of course it was running very hard and smoking bad. So now I have other issues than just rods and pistons but since we are already in the head once we get to the pistons to see it the rings are good, and the valves are not bent, we are considering the 1g rods with the forged pistons on 264 cams. what do you think?

Will the big 16g hold that pressure/heat? (i don't see me upgrading to a HX 35 anytime soon)
Will DSMLink work with this combo?
How much hp can I get with this set up?

THANKS!

Hey, being a girl is no excuse for bad spelling or not knowing terms, but that's why the community is here and we have "spell check" on these replys . When you mean rocking, do you mean the whole car or just the engine? If just the engine, check the motor mounts to see if any are torn. If you are just gonna rebuild anyway, might as well get some good stuff. Eagle rods are cheap and can hold up to 700hp. That's much more than the 1g rods.

Most people do the 264/272 combo and feel it gives good results. Do some research on what size cams will suite your needs best. Do you plan on going bigger down the road at all? Research DSMLink as well, you WILL NEED an eprom ecu which you should have being a 90. Check out ECMTuning, Inc. (dsmlink) and you can get some other info there as well. Also they will service the ECU for you too.

The last question, I cannot answer as that breaks one of the forum rules "No Bench Racing". I can say that people have gone into the 400hp range using the E316G. Of course, that's with a good bit of supporting mods and then some. It's all in the tune and boost.

Liquid

 

[Lil Dee]

GOING TO SEE WHAT IS IN THE IN BLOCK. WILL POST WHAT WE FIND

By the way our ECU is actually non eprom but we did find one eprom a month ago. Going to send it away to get DSMLINK.

 

[bluegs03]

If you get a chance and need some stock 1g rods on 2g pistons check this place out, they can also do evo pistons! Saves some time and headaches.
DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

 

[Fern-tsi]

A girl thats into DSM's , Damn thats hot!

 

[Lil Dee]

So here it is........ the head is off. First let me say that all lash adjusters (lifters) were stiff except for 2, 8 rocker/rollers were off. So we remove the head and we turn the cam gear only two valves open and close. We have stock pistons (63DT) and the rings are bad, and we need valve seals.

I guess we'll be getting those pistons.

Because the lifters are stiff (won't compress)... Should replace them right? Did the research and seems like an easy fix.

 

[taz_oconnor2007]

3g revised lash lifters all i can say and i will go with Liquid x and build it right the first time cause if your looking for big numbers your gonna have to pay BIG numbers, there is no excuse for "half assing" a dsm you wont be happy when your car shits out due to saving 30$ MY OWN OPINION take it as you want

 

[LiquidX]

So here it is........ the head is off. First let me say that all lash adjusters (lifters) were stiff except for 2, 8 rocker/rollers were off. So we remove the head and we turn the cam gear only two valves open and close. We have stock pistons (63DT) and the rings are bad, and we need valve seals.

I guess we'll be getting those pistons.

Because the lifters are stiff (won't compress)... Should replace them right? Did the research and seems like an easy fix.

For the lifters, go and get the "revised lifters" (3g eclipse lifters). Real way to change them is to take the cams out but you don't NEED to do that to change them. The revised lifters have a larger squirter hole in the top and that reduces lifter tap. Since you need to change your valve seals just take the cams out and change it all the proper way.

So no damaged valves at all??? The general consessus is Eagle rods and Wiseco pistions if you plan on doing a power build. I personally went with Eagle and Mahle pistons in my current rebuild. I know the EVO setup can work and the pistons are a higher compression of 8.8. The rods and pistons need to be machined to work and http://www.thedsmgraveyard.com/default.asp sells them IIRC as well as any other parts you may need especially used stock parts.

The way it sounds, you may just consider doing a full rebuild as well. New gaskets, oil/water pump, timing. You'll have to pull the block out to get machined properly. It can be honed in the car but you NEED to make sure all of the grit is out of the engine, otherwise you'll need to rebuild again . Street Tuned Motorsports - DSM Performance Accessories is having a good sale right now for parts if it's still going on. No shipping cost. Check the vendor threads for other sales as well (how I got most of my parts listed in my mods).

Any other questions?

As to Fern-tsi, there are no "women" here only DSMers, so no cat calls .

 

[Lil Dee]

Well as you can imagine we're rebuilding it!

Just waiting on some parts.

I will keep you posted on the rebuild

Thanks for all the help thus far. Can't wait to see her spin

 

[Chrispy0530]

Keep us updated on the progress!

 

[Lil Dee]

Okay we have everything we need including crower 272/272 cams. Would we be able to use EVO 8 pistons with 1g rods on OEM block without having to bore block? What do you think? Or what is your experience with the best compression ratio with the 272/272 cams? What piston/rod combo?

I appreciate your help.

Basically he wants to know (Can you use a 2003/2004 Mits Lancer EVO8 on 1g rod in a OEM 4G63)

 

[LiquidX]

You want your cams to match your turbo. I would recommend a lower compression <9.0 if you plan on running higher boost numbers. Once you go 9.0< it becomes harder to tune out knock.

 

[dsmusmc]

Or what is your experience with the best compression ratio with the 272/272 cams? What piston/rod combo?

Im gland you went with the 272's. That way you get alittle extra power and you have room to grow. I agree with 9:1 pistons. I myself prefer Wiseco/Manley setup they are both light and strong. I dont care much for Eagle rods but if your staying under 500HP they will be fine for you and have proven well. There are plenty of vendors out there that have piston/rod combos to save you some cash.