Hard cold start

[Rock2610d]

Well now that it is getting colder (30 deg) where I live, I have noticed my car takes a couple tries to get it started.

I tested my coils and the primary resistance is 1.2 to 1.4 ohms. Would that out of spec reading cause harder cold starts?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Check the coolant temp sensor, not sure about spec but if it isn't in range I would seek another.

 

[Rock2610d]

Yah, first thing I checked. ECU is reading good temps 30 deg or so when I 1st start it and runs at about 210 to 215 fully warm.

Since my logger is reading what ECU sees my temp sensor should be ok?

 

[92AWDHX40]

If its in spec I would assume so on your logger, hard start could be battery, when my cts is bad my car would be hard to start if it started at all.

 

[Rock2610d]

By hard starting I mean:

It cranks over and starts almost immediately, runs for maybe 1 second and dies.
I crank it again and repeats process.
3rd time it starts and runs poorly for maybe 5 seconds before engine sounds normal. Then no issues....I let it warm up and off I go.

Just wondering if higher than spec primary resistance would cause this?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Mine does this too cause my bov is open even though I'm on SD, i didn't have this problem with a higher spring, but the boost recovery is noticeable.

 

[kenamond]

You might also check your compression. A cold engine with worn rings has really low compression cold until the rings warm up and expand to close up the ring gap (which happens pretty fast). Mine's not as bad as yours, but it takes 2 tries in the winter, usually, 3 tries sometimes but rarely.

 

[Rock2610d]

My compression is as good as it gets with 9:1 compression ratio at 7800 feet....Checked it a couple weeks ago at 155ish across the board.

I know a lot of people might find that low but its equivalent to 185ish in the low lands.

When the motor had over 200K on it with 8:1 compression ratio prior to rebuild it started better than this.

I already know....bad spark plug gaps, bad sensors, poor compression, bad plugs, bad wires, poor injectors, bad Temp. sensor, vacuum leak, bad gas, low voltage, poor starter, can cause issues.

All I really need to know is if anyone has had a situation where the coils with out of spec primary resistance caused hard cold weather starts?

 

[kenamond]

My compression is as good as it gets with 9:1 compression ratio at 7800 feet....Checked it a couple weeks ago at 155ish across the board.

I know a lot of people might find that low but its equivalent to 185ish in the low lands.

When the motor had over 200K on it with 8:1 compression ratio prior to rebuild it started better than this.

I already know....bad spark plug gaps, bad sensors, poor compression, bad plugs, bad wires, poor injectors, bad Temp. sensor, vacuum leak, bad gas, low voltage, poor starter, can cause issues.

All I really need to know is if anyone has had a situation where the coils with out of spec primary resistance caused hard cold weather starts?

a) Sorry, but I have no direct answer

b) for those at sea level (or close to sea level), realize that Rock and I are at ~8000ft elevation ("Mile-High" Denver is below us). We live where there is only 80% of the air pressure you sea-level-folk enjoy (jog a mile with either of us and realize what this means). As a result, compression tests and turbo compressor efficiency maps require adjustment for altitude.

c) Sorry I have nothing useful to add for you, Rock

 

[poteau]

Are you running ecmlink or aftermarket ecu? Might be putting in too much fuel when it is cold.

Mine does the same thing when it is cold. I haven't looked into fixing it too much but I noticed when I start it up the wideband shows like 9:1. Might be something to look at.

 

[Rock2610d]

Factory ECU, once wide band is on....(it takes about 30 seconds to warm up). It shows 14.4 to 14.7.

Not running Link....I have a OBD2 unit that can log sensors.

Well I am not getting any info on high resistance and coil packs causing poor starting in cold weather.

Since, 1.4 ohms is almost double the factory spec I must assume the coil pack is contributing to the hard cold starts.

New coil pack and Ignition Transistor will be installed next week.....soon as Mitsubishi can get them to me. Only use OEM parts, as I do not want to take chances with the secondary market.

So, I guess sometime next week I will answer this $300 question. $170 for Coils and $160 for Ignition Transistor.

I will let everyone know if it helps.

Are you running ecmlink or aftermarket ecu? Might be putting in too much fuel when it is cold.

Mine does the same thing when it is cold. I haven't looked into fixing it too much but I noticed when I start it up the wideband shows like 9:1. Might be something to look at.

Have you checked your Coils for primary and secondary resistances?

 

[boost97gst]

Most obvious thing that i know will cause a very tough cold start: Check your fuel pressure solenoid. Or if you recently deleted it, theres your problem. I tried deleting mine and cold starts were brutal, wasnt worth it. With link you can turn it on/off i believe.

 

[Rock2610d]

Never even thought of that.

I replaced the 2 solenoids that are on the bracket on fire wall when I replaced my EGR system. The 3rd one by itself to the right of the double solenoid pack is the fuel pressure solenoid?

Maybe its bad?????

If coils and ignition control module do not fix I will definitely look at the FPS.

thanks

 

[boost97gst]

Yes, iirc the furthest to the right is the FPS. I dont know how people run without one. It could very well be your problem

 

[Rock2610d]

Well, I tested the fps and came up with 50 ohms....out of spec too.

My obd2 logger can log 2 fuel systems. Fuel system 1 has a "CL" in the readings column, and has a "NA" in the fuel system 2 data column.

Anyone know what "CL" stands for?....EDITnever mind google says that means "closed loop"

from:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/352330-fuel-pressure-solenoid-help.html

"ohm the 2 terminals of the solenoid, should have about 30-40 ohms if you read OL the solenoid it bad"

and from:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/433293-p1105-code-problem.html

Heres how you'd check the FPS to ensure that its operating correctly.

DTC P1105 - FUEL PRESSURE SOLENOID MALFUNCTION
NOTE: For terminal identification, see TERMINAL IDENTIFICATION in SELF-DIAGNOSTICS section. For circuit and wire color identification, see WIRING DIAGRAMS - 2.0L - TURBO article.


Disconnect Black vacuum hose from fuel pressure solenoid nipple. Disconnect electrical connector. Connect hand vacuum pump to solenoid nipple where hose was connected. Apply vacuum to solenoid. Go to next step.
Apply battery voltage across solenoid terminals. Vacuum should be maintained with voltage applied and should leak with voltage not applied. If vacuum is not as specified, replace solenoid. If vacuum is as specified, go to next step.
Turn ignition off. Check resistance between solenoid terminals. If resistance is 36-44 k/ohms at 68°F (20°C), go to next step. If resistance is not as specified, replace solenoid.
Turn ignition on. Check voltage between ground and solenoid connector terminal No. 1. If battery voltage exists, go to next step. If battery voltage does not exist, check wiring harness between MFI relay and solenoid.
Turn ignition off. Disconnect PCM connector. Turn ignition on. Check voltage between ground and PCM connector terminal No. 3. If battery voltage exists, check PCM connector. If PCM connector is okay, replace PCM. If battery voltage does not exist, check solenoid connector. If connector is okay, check wiring harness between PCM and solenoid.

Looks like a new fps may be in my future too...it was about 50 degrees out when I tested.

 

[khartley]

I had the exact same problem with a 96 tsi and it was my coolant temp sensor... You are certain that is not the culprit? Its a $10 part...

 

[Rock2610d]

So, I took the coolant sensor out and put in a cup of ice water. Figure 35 degrees.

on the 200k scale I got 5.3k Kohms.

good?

5.3 K ohms seems like ECU is seeing the coolant at about right?

 

[Rock2610d]

Installing my new coils and Ignition Module today. Tested brand new OEM coils and primary resistance is .9 Ohms. Put the neg and pos together on my Ohm tester, on the 200 scale, and got .1 ohms.

So, .9 ohms minus .1 ohms is .8 ohms. barely within spec...right?

I will update when all is back together, I will check injector igniter while I am at it.

********************
update

well I put on new coils, transistor, plugs, and did a BLT.

Car is purring like a kitten, it does not have the small engine vibration above 2500 rpm anymore either.

Last time I changed my plugs (400 miles ago) it purred like a kitten for about 200 miles and than started a small barely noticeable engine vibration. You would not even notice it unless it quit.....which it did today.

Hope I have fixed that and the cold start issue. I will know in the morning.

NOW, the BLT is a disaster. Oil bubbles when I test on inlet of turbo. No play in turbo impeller shaft, but the BLT was pressurizing my vc. Could not keep boost for over 10 seconds.

Moved to the inlet of throttle body and it will hold boost all day long at 7 psi. Anything over that and again boost comes out the vc breather hose. PVC valve is tested and good....dang it. must be valve seals!!!!

I did get my ECM Link installed too....here is my first idle log if anyone is interested. -230 dead time on stock injectors A a 20% increase of MAFcomp.....must be my elevation?

 

[Rock2610d]

Car starts much easier now. Not perfect but it will start with one key turn, but idles badly for maybe 5 seconds than evens out.


Hope issues do not come back like before..