GT35R-equivelent, but bolt-on direct swap...heard of it?

[Rice Over Wheat]

I went to Central Florida Turbo today to pick up some couplers and I talked to one of their guys there with the shop's 550whp Integra. He showed me one of the turbos in the glass display which he said was basically the same thing as the GT35R he was installing in a 1G in the back. He showed me how the only difference to the GT35R in the 1G was that this other turbo used an internal wastegate. It is direct bolt on to the stock exhaust manifold and can use all the existing lines, pipes, etc. Price? $800. I think he said it was 63 trim or something.

Has anyone heard of this turbo? For a turbo the size of this one that would bolt straight up, that sounds like an incredibly good deal. I'm thinking about buying it to swap from my T28. This shop has some badass cars and these guys are pretty sharp. What do you think?

Friday I'll get the exact specs and name of the turbo, maybe a pic.

 

[GVR4592]

I think you're referring to a GT3561. It's basically a non ball bearing GT35R and you can get it in a bolt on housing.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Yeah that might be it. I like the idea of such easy install. Considering my mods, do you think this is a good deal for $800? Note that I currently only have an safc and would probably not buy stand alone ecu management right away. However, a larger turbo is more efficient at lower boost, so perhaps even with my current mods I'd get significant power gain?

 

[blackGSX2g]

Slowboy has a bolt-on GT35R:

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=37&

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Slowboy has a bolt-on GT35R:

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=37&

Ouch, but that's almost twice the price. Wish I could. However, I searched on the GT3561 and although it doesn't seem popular here, it does appear to be a pretty nice turbo for the ease of install, spool, and power. I think this has my name on it. Might be able to squeeze 400whp on an afc2.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Might be able to squeeze 400whp on an afc2.

That can be done with a 50 trim.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

That can be done with a 50 trim.

 

[Slippi84]

First off like they said you can get the GT35r in a bolt on housing not for 800 but for you can def get it cheaper then what SBR sells it for and it would have a .63ar. Two while the GT3561 is cheaper and will bolt on you will want to kill yourself going from a t28 to that because the lag will be night and day diffrent. Look for full boost with a non ball bearing GT35 at around 45-4800rpms on a 2.0l. To be honest if your goal is only 400whp and your all about the bolt on housing idea which I am to so I feel ya I would look into the PTE 50 trim or a similar turbo from another company. If you want to do it right and not have to worry and to have a tubro that has been proven to make the power your talkin about I would go with the fp green. The thing is that is is more money and the manifold side is bolt on while you need to get a external wastegate and a diffrent dp to run it but there will be no coming short on your goal of 400whp with that thing. Main point is GT35R equivalent = 500-600hp ideal turbo 50 trim or equivalent 400-500hp ideal turbo. Just my .02

 

[project_tsi]

What about a PTE SCM 6152?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Well I was targetting 400whp for now only because I probably won't get DSMlink for a good 6 months so I'll be stuck on the SAFC2. Once I get tuned on the T28 in the next week or so, I am aiming for about 320whp on my current setup. The next step for me is a bigger turbo. I like those PTE turbos, but I don't want to be limited to 450whp on a 50 trim once I get DSMlink. And the SCM 6152 needs a built engine, so that's out of the question for the time being. But I think that 3431E 57 trim might be the perfect compromise and bolts right up. $750 at Dejon right now and good for 550 whp.

I think you guys are right that the non BB GT3561 would spool too slow. I'd need to build my motor up anyway and need higher rev limiter to take advantage of it. At least with the 57 trim I can scale my way up more gradually.

 

[1SloColt]

I run a SC61 on a bone stock 1990 bottom end without problems. I will not build my bottom end until 1)I wear out the motor, or 2)The motor breaks. I personally think the motor will wear out before it blows, even at 30psi, which is what I run with race gas.

 

[Ludachris]

A non-ball bearing turbo is not the equivalent of a GT35R. You can get a non-ball bearing turbo with similar (if not identical) wheel specs and housings as a GT35R for under a grand. But if you want that ball bearing center section that makes a GT35R what it is, you'll end up paying over $1100 almost anywhere you go. The only real reason to go ball bearing is superior spool up capability. If you're not worried about a couple hundred RPM then don't sweat the extra cost and go for something less expensive. We have plenty of supporting vendors who sell any turbo you decide on.

Why would you say a 6152 requires a built bottom end and yet not think the same thing of a GT35R?

 

[nikkeebabee]

an scm 6152e runs a 35r wheel but is non ball bearing

you dont require a built motor but to push it any where near its limit you need one, same as the 35r....

Central florida turbo is ###### showing you an scm 6152e

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

A non-ball bearing turbo is not the equivalent of a GT35R. You can get a non-ball bearing turbo with similar (if not identical) wheel specs and housings as a GT35R for under a grand. But if you want that ball bearing center section that makes a GT35R what it is, you'll end up paying over $1100 almost anywhere you go. The only real reason to go ball bearing is superior spool up capability. If you're not worried about a couple hundred RPM then don't sweat the extra cost and go for something less expensive. We have plenty of supporting vendors who sell any turbo you decide on.

Why would you say a 6152 requires a built bottom end and yet not think the same thing of a GT35R?

Well they were pointing that out that I wouldn't be able to use it to its potential if I didn't work on more internals, probably around 415 max they said if I went with that turbo. Since I plan to eventually rebuild this motor with all the bells, I don't want to go with a 450 max turbo like a 50 trim and then need to upgrade again when I do the motor. I'm willing to do bb...what I want to minimize is the PITA factor of needing to mess with my stock manifold, etc. I'll take less boost control and less flow for convenience. I'm willing to do $1k and change if the turbo is bolt on to stock manifold. At most I'm willing to change out the dp.

As for whatever they actually showed me, tomorrow I go to get my fmic intake pipes fabbed under my crossmember so I dont have to cut my t28. I'll find out exactly what they showed me.

 

[Slippi84]

A non-ball bearing turbo is not the equivalent of a GT35R. You can get a non-ball bearing turbo with similar (if not identical) wheel specs and housings as a GT35R for under a grand. But if you want that ball bearing center section that makes a GT35R what it is, you'll end up paying over $1100 almost anywhere you go. The only real reason to go ball bearing is superior spool up capability. If you're not worried about a couple hundred RPM then don't sweat the extra cost and go for something less expensive. We have plenty of supporting vendors who sell any turbo you decide on.

Why would you say a 6152 requires a built bottom end and yet not think the same thing of a GT35R?

I don't understand the first sentence of this but I take it you mean a non duall ball bearing gt35r(yes I know it wouldn't be a 35r then) is not equivalent to a true gt35r. But then you go on to make it seem that the only diffrence is a few hundred rpms on spool seems kinda contradicting but I hear what your saying as it was my main point in my first post. None of the turbos in question NEED a built bottom end to still get you into the low 11;s if your really lucky maybe even the high tens. WHat's more important with a big turbo setup is supporting mods more than a built engine. A built engine trans/drivetrain will keep you from breakin with the new power your makin. Supporting mods are what allow that big turbo to make that power keep that in mind.

 

[clipsit]

I also think that you should probably go w/ something maybe a little smaller unless you are getting a good deal, but I have the AGP 50 trim on my 2.4 and I love it...granted you are still 2L, but a 50 trim compared to your little t-28 will knock your socks off and it's hands down the best pump gas turbo money can buy! Even though I am built, some guys would prob say, why aren't you running like say a GT35R or bigger? But the power I make on the 50 trim and when I hit full boost is awesome and I don't really think at this point in time I really want like 500+ HP...400-450 is good enough for now... , so it depends on how much HP or what kind of driving you are going to be doing...drag...autox...or whatever? I would also say, if you are going to be in there, to port your manifold if you already haven't done so...especially if you want to get the best flow w/ that big of a turbo...also just my .02...Let us know?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Yeah I didn't realize how big that turbo really was. Just now I was at discount auto parts store and some guy saw my car and pulled in. Turns out he's got a 95 GST with quite an advanced setup on a FP green. Over 500whp, now he's in the middle of moving to Haltech from DSMlink and was trying to sell me all kinds of parts off his car like fuel rail, intake manifold, etc. His FP green was direct bolt on. After seeing his setup, I think I do indeed want to go 50 trim.

 

[clipsit]

I promise you won't be disappointed either ...let us know man? It just all depends. If you want 500+ then go big first, depending on your supporting mods and go from there. Hope we all helped a little. Good luck in your search...

 

[Caithness]

Just to clarify-

SCM6152E- compressor wheel from the GT35R, T350 turbine wheel (kinda old-school), non-ball-bearing
GT3561- GT35R minus the R (journal bearings), compressor wheel from the GT35R, GT-series turbine wheel- only direct comparison with the SCM61/t350 turbine I've ever heard about was 10 whp and 100 rpm quicker spool on a 500hp shop car, a few years back. Hard to beat more power and faster spool in the same turbine wheel, though.
GT35R- same as above with ball bearing chra. The ball bearing chra isn't supposed to make a huge difference in spool, less than 100 rpm at best. The real gain is transient response- say you make full boost at 4500 in a GT35R car and at 4550 in a GT3561 car. When you're at 5000 rpm out of boost and you punch the throttle, the GT35R should hit full boost much faster than the GT3561. This also affects how much boost drops off and how quickly it builds back up after shifts. The one that that I still need to research about this turbo to form a pros/cons list is the claim that ball-bearing chras are more reliable and resistant to abuse like ALS. I haven't read much to support or deny this claim- need to do some more focused searches.

This I gathered over much searching here and elsewhere and some time perusing Garrett, PTE, and other retailer websites. I don't feel like digging up the specific designations for wheels, 61.4mm inducer 82mm exducer 56 trim "GT40" compressor wheel, yadda yadda- there have been several threads that cover all that stuff, including one I posted a while back looking for some of this info. All I can say is that turbo naming conventions seem to be designed to be as confusing and non-intuitive as possible, and it only gets worse when people come up with pet names for certain turbos. That and every shop brands the turbos they sell with some new and confusing name, all the way from small retailers to HKS.

 

[Caithness]

I went to Central Florida Turbo today to pick up some couplers and I talked to one of their guys there with the shop's 550whp Integra. He showed me one of the turbos in the glass display which he said was basically the same thing as the GT35R he was installing in a 1G in the back. He showed me how the only difference to the GT35R in the 1G was that this other turbo used an internal wastegate. It is direct bolt on to the stock exhaust manifold and can use all the existing lines, pipes, etc. Price? $800. I think he said it was 63 trim or something.

Has anyone heard of this turbo? For a turbo the size of this one that would bolt straight up, that sounds like an incredibly good deal. I'm thinking about buying it to swap from my T28. This shop has some badass cars and these guys are pretty sharp. What do you think?

Friday I'll get the exact specs and name of the turbo, maybe a pic.

Woah, 800 bucks for a GT3561? Couple of questions-
Were they selling it with the SP cover? Did they include the internal wastegate? Are you sure this was the GT3561 with the GT-series turbine wheel and not an SCM61 with the older T350 wheel?

A friend of mine is trying to decide between the SCM61 and the GT3561 right now. Currently the best price he's found on both is 750 for the SCM61 and 889 for the GT3561, both with internal gate, SP housing included. He's been leaning toward the SCM61 because he can't justify spending the extra 140 bucks for maybe 10-15 hp at the same boost level and ~100 rpm spool difference, but 800 and he would probably go buy the turbo from them if it's as you describe it.

 

[GVR4592]

I can confirm that the GT3561 with the SP cover and internal wastegate is $889 from Dejon tool. I don't doubt that it could be purchased for $800 if you "know" somebody.

I ordered mine on Tuesday night and it was here today when I got home from work.

 

[clipsit]

Oh...Oh...Oh.........aint that a thing of beauty! Would love to see that turbo once it is on that GVR4...post it when you are done...somewhere......

 

[RipperXX]

Not to jack this thread, but does anyone have any idea of where a FP green would spool with HKS 264 cams on a 2L?

 

[CanadianTSi]

Not to jack this thread, but does anyone have any idea of where a FP green would spool with HKS 264 cams on a 2L?

Probably right around 4k.

 

[Slippi84]

Just to clarify-

SCM6152E- compressor wheel from the GT35R, T350 turbine wheel (kinda old-school), non-ball-bearing
GT3561- GT35R minus the R (journal bearings), compressor wheel from the GT35R, GT-series turbine wheel- only direct comparison with the SCM61/t350 turbine I've ever heard about was 10 whp and 100 rpm quicker spool on a 500hp shop car, a few years back. Hard to beat more power and faster spool in the same turbine wheel, though.
GT35R- same as above with ball bearing chra. The ball bearing chra isn't supposed to make a huge difference in spool, less than 100 rpm at best. The real gain is transient response- say you make full boost at 4500 in a GT35R car and at 4550 in a GT3561 car. When you're at 5000 rpm out of boost and you punch the throttle, the GT35R should hit full boost much faster than the GT3561. This also affects how much boost drops off and how quickly it builds back up after shifts. The one that that I still need to research about this turbo to form a pros/cons list is the claim that ball-bearing chras are more reliable and resistant to abuse like ALS. I haven't read much to support or deny this claim- need to do some more focused searches.

This I gathered over much searching here and elsewhere and some time perusing Garrett, PTE, and other retailer websites. I don't feel like digging up the specific designations for wheels, 61.4mm inducer 82mm exducer 56 trim "GT40" compressor wheel, yadda yadda- there have been several threads that cover all that stuff, including one I posted a while back looking for some of this info. All I can say is that turbo naming conventions seem to be designed to be as confusing and non-intuitive as possible, and it only gets worse when people come up with pet names for certain turbos. That and every shop brands the turbos they sell with some new and confusing name, all the way from small retailers to HKS.

You have read wrong my friend. Dual ball bearing center section increases spool by 20% give or take. Less than 100rpms is def false. I do agree it's less than the 20% that is suposed to be in bigger turbos like the gt35r and gt3561 but you are still lookin at a 200prm diffrence and yes the transient response is more the kicker and if that should def not be overlooked. The easiest way to see how diffrent good transient response is compared to a car without good transient response is to check the times when someone uses NLTS and when they don't because all they're doing is keeping their turbo spooled and avoiding having to boost back up same idea. Just in case anyone doesn't know NLTS is known to knock .2 off your 1/4 mile. just food for thought. I personaly own a duall ball bearing turbo around the size of the turbos we're talkin about.