GSTwithPSI Galant VR4 1837 of 2000

[19gsx91]

The good news is it didn't take out your pistons, and trust me I know what you mean about getting old, I tore the heater core and all air ducting out of my camaro a few years ago saying I'll just put a jacket on and drive it in nice weather, Now in the middle of a full blown LSX swap I'm considering buying another camaro because that old 80s plastic is a jigsaw puzzle I do NOT want to try to reassmble. I'm glad your back together and running again!

 

[iceguru1114]

I love a good puzzle. Since we lack dynamic valve data, let's pontificate a 'most likely' explanation...

You timed the engine right and degreed the cams, which means that raw timing is not the issue. You ran the car up to redline previously with no piston to valve contact, which means that valve float is probably not to blame. There's definite scoring on the pistons and all 8 intake valves are bent, so it's a no brainer that valve to piston contact occured. However, there was a very close time proximity between knock and the valve failure. This makes the problem a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

If I'm reading the story right, this event happened the first time things got really hot, repeatedly, which I'm sure you know causes expansion. I think the repeatedly part is the key in unraveling the mystery. Repeat thermal cycling at high temperatures will increase average component temperature much moreso than a simple run or two. Assuming everything up to this point can be assumed to be true, the only remaining explanation for the piston to valve contact is inadequate hot lash piston to valve clearance. I second miliman13 on that idea.

I suppose it's possible the knock could have occurred first. Knock incurs a higher peak in-cylinder temperature which causes greater expansion than regular operation and also decreases yield strength in a hurry, which would make things more likely to deflect further than normal. However, you had so few cycles of knock logged, I don't think there would have been enough thermal cycles to cause all that.

I think the more likely scenario is that things reached a higher average temperature than they had up until this point, hot lash clearance was inadequate, valve contact happened, then the knock. Once you lose the intake valve seal, combustion will spread quickly to the next available source of air and fuel waiting in the manifold, which means that on each subsequent cycle after a combustion event in the chamber, you were probably already atleast partially burning the mixture on the way in. That's tantamount to way too much advance, which is a clear recipe for detonation.

Also, once you yield the valves and the stem height drops down, cams will be locked in place relative to each other due to the cogged belt and the way its routed between the cam gears with no tensioner between the two. But, the additional base lobe clearance means there's going to be extra slack in the belt which has to be taken up somewhere in the timing drive. This would explain why the cams seemed ok, but the crank was out of phase.

At any rate, whether it was knock, or repeated thermal cycling to increase average temperatures higher than they've been so far, I think the fundamental failure mode remains the same: Too hot. Too much expansion and/or deflection as a result. Not enough clearance to account for that.

Sanity check me. Who sees a hole in my thought process somewhere or has a better explanation?

 

[d1prospect]

Awesome story Brett. That car is still awesome. Keep up the good work

 

[GST with PSI]

I appreciate everyone's input.

I think @iceguru1114 's theory is sound, but I'm not sure I'll ever know the root cause for sure. Good or bad, I try and post up the details regarding my build, in hopes my trial and error helps someone else in the future.

I'll be honest, I was pretty upset when it happened. I had spent the better part of 3 months getting every nut and bolt just the way I wanted it. The motor break in went great, and I thought I was home free...Then boom, I trash the head. I took a few days to debate what I was going to do, then I just said f*** it, and decided to slap a new head on and see what would happen. I had no idea if I hurt the bottom end, as the valves undoubtedly smacked the pistons pretty good. But, at that point, I didn't really have anything to lose so I went ahead with the head swap. My buddy Dan hooked me up with a few parts to get me back up and running quickly too, so that helped.

Since the head swap, the car has been great. I'm at nearly 200 miles on the new motor, and not a single squeak or leak! It's been running perfect, so today I filled up with E85 in preparation for some tuning. If everything goes as planned, I should have the car dialed in this weekend. I'm hoping to have some updates to share about how the new 68HTA is working out with my setup.

Awesome story Brett. That car is still awesome. Keep up the good work

Thanks, Jae! Looking forward to seeing your build myself. Are Dan and I gonna see you out at Capitol this year or what dude?

 

[Type1DSMr]

I run the fp 68hta with e85 on stock cams, and it's still a lot of fun. I think you'll enjoy your setup. Goodluck!

 

[GST with PSI]

I run the fp 68hta with e85 on stock cams, and it's still a lot of fun. I think you'll enjoy your setup. Goodluck!

Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what the turbo can do on stock cams. With all the feedback I've been seeing about the new 68HTA being laggy, it's going to be nice to see if stock cams help with that. Eventually, I'll probably go back to a bigger cam, and should have a nice baseline to compare to.

 

[d1prospect]

Anytime Brett just let me know when. My build is coming along.

 

[iceguru1114]

Congrats on getting everything up and going again so soon. Nice to see someone rise to the challenge of a failure like that and persevere .

 

[pauleyman]

How about this theory. Any chance yiu missed a small piece of fod etc and it skipped the belt? Check the entire circumference of your belt for signs of damage.

 

[GST with PSI]

I just finished some updates to the car to support the new turbo on E85. I started with the fuel system. I upgraded to FIC 1150's, fresh from FIC all cleaned and flow tested.

Then, I replaced the Walbro 255 with an Aeromotive 340 E85 stealth pump. I was pretty happy to see my home grown terminals on the pump hanger holding up great! There was no corrosion in the fuel tank, fuel rail, or the lines. Also, the FIC 1050's I pulled out of the car were super clean. No black goo whatsoever.

I've been experiencing a tiny bit of ignition breakup at redline on the new turbo. I figured my tired junkyard coils and old COP setup could use updating. So, I ordered all new stuff. Apparently there are some guys running iridium plugs on high boost cars with great results, so per their suggestions, I figured I'd give them a try. I think the last time I used iridium plugs was like 2007, and have sworn by the copper cores ever since. Results TBD...

I got everything all wired up and slapped the new COP setup on the car. I also installed some new reservoir caps to go with all the bling.

I wanted to take the car out for a good test beat, but I found out today my alternator is taking a dump. So, I'll get one on order and hopefully get to see how all this new shit works in the next week or so. Also decided to make the jump to SD, just not sure when...

 

[Nate355RS]

So 200 miles on the short block and your doing full WOT runs? You're braver than I am. I think you'll like running SD, maybe Calan can hook you up with LT. Makes tuning much easier, especially open loop heavy throttle.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Looks great bro. So your running cop with no cdi? Let me know how it all turns out also where did you get the galant vr4 oil cap? I want one help a brotha out

 

[GST with PSI]

So 200 miles on the short block and your doing full WOT runs? You're braver than I am. I think you'll like running SD, maybe Calan can hook you up with LT. Makes tuning much easier, especially open loop heavy throttle.

Yep, I'm at almost 600 miles on it now. Still running great!

Looks great bro. So your running cop with no cdi? Let me know how it all turns out also where did you get the galant vr4 oil cap? I want one help a brotha out

Thanks, man. No CDI, currently. I'll see if the recent updates I just did to the ignition system clear up the issues I was having. If not, I'll pick up an ARC-2.

The oil caps were custom machined out of billet aluminum. I got one as part of a group buy over on the Galant forums. There was only a small batch of them made, and they aren't available anymore to my knowledge.

 

[Dsmkauai]

Oh man ;( haha thx ya that's why I joined that forum but somethings wrong with those memebers. CAnt just be nice and help others when they are trying to save a rare car. Anyways that's why I love Dsmtuners. Ya bro I've had great luck with my cop and no Cdi. Car runs smooth with it and hasn't given any breakup for my setup. I'll be maxing my 14b which has been so much fun for autox haha. Then I'll prob throw on the hta68 mahahaha

 

[OGDSM1989]

This is by far the cleanest VR-4 that I have seen in a long time. Its nice to see a well maintained Galant still around.

 

[GST with PSI]

I got the new alternator installed today. I decided to go with the 90 amp (AL4008X) Bosch unit, since my old one was crapping out. Once I got it in the car, I noticed my voltages were much more stable than before. They stay right around 14V all the way to redline.

After I was confident the car was charging properly, I went out and did a few pulls to dial it in a bit better. Between the new alternator, and working with the tune a bit, the car doesn't seem to be breaking up anymore. It's on about 25 pounds of boost currently, and feels really strong. I think tomorrow I'll pull the plugs and close the gaps up a bit, and then try and get to 30 psi. I also need to work on the spool up tuning some, but overall I'm happy with how it's running.

 

[GST with PSI]

This is by far the cleanest VR-4 that I have seen in a long time. Its nice to see a well maintained Galant still around.

Thanks for the positive feedback. I appreciate it!

 

[CrackedDSM]

Where did you get that Alt? It looks really nice. Also, I love that JMF COP plate. Such a good looking piece. Keep up the good work! I'm glad the 68HTA is working out for you.

 

[GST with PSI]

Where did you get that Alt? It looks really nice. Also, I love that JMF COP plate. Such a good looking piece. Keep up the good work! I'm glad the 68HTA is working out for you.

I found it online, and was able to order it locally through Advance.

Thanks for the kind words. I hope your car finds it's way to you in the near future! You've got a nice parts pile going.

 

[CrackedDSM]

Thanks buddy. It'll come together eventually, just takes time.

 

[GST with PSI]

GST with PSI updated GSTwithPSI's Galant VR4 #1837/2000

Mod list updated: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/gstwithpsis-galant-vr4-1837-2000.482807/page-6#post-153587328

View updates to this DSM profile...

 

[GST with PSI]

Rolled 600 or so miles on the new build, so figured it was time to do another oil change and see how healthy the motor is. I drained the oil into a clean pan, and it looked good. So, then I pulled the filter and sliced it open for an inspection. The filter looked great, metal free and super clean.

I also did a compression test, and was extremely pleased with the results. 175-180 psi across the board on a cold motor.

I regaped the plugs to .018 and put the car back together. It runs GREAT. With the car in good shape mechanically, it was time to scrub off all the bugs I slaughtered doing 3rd gear tuning pulls.

All clean

 

[Dsmkauai]

So purdy! Haha can't wait till mines painted and shines like new again

 

[19gsx91]

I'm so jealous, I wish I could get my GSX half as clean, unfortunately with the work schedule it's just not in the cards at the moment. It never ceases to amaze me how nice your car is Brett, Are you still thinking about getting cams back in it or do you think it pulls alright with the 68hta without them?

 

[GST with PSI]

I'm so jealous, I wish I could get my GSX half as clean, unfortunately with the work schedule it's just not in the cards at the moment. It never ceases to amaze me how nice your car is Brett, Are you still thinking about getting cams back in it or do you think it pulls alright with the 68hta without them?

Believe me, I completely understand life taking priority. I've been wrenching on this car since October of 2013, so I can attest to these things not happening overnight. It's literally taken me years to get the car to where it is today. I've got a day job like most guys here, and time and money isn't as abundant as I wish it was. Just to give you an idea, here's what 1837 looked like under the hood when I first got it.

The car definitely pulls great without cams, but I'll pick up another set eventually and swap them in. With the bigger turbo, I really need to free up the top end, where this turbo really shines. I'm finding HKS 272 cams aren't terrible easy to come by, so I'll wait out for a good deal on a set.