FP Black vs HX35

[BlackGSXEclipse]

Ok I'm in the last stages of my build/restore. While the car is out for paint I'm wanting to get the turbo kit squared away. I'm looking between the FP Black and HX35. My goal is 500hp on 93 and meth. I have all supporting mods already, just can't decide on a turbo. Price isn't really a factor betwween the two, just looking for the best turbo to suit my needs(nice powerband, will just be driven out in country twisties.) I know there are a few different options on the Holset, I'm just looking for a turbo that isn't going to be super laggy with the built 2.0, but still make the power I'm looking for on pump/meth. I'm open to options to if anyone has any better suggestions.

 

[renovatdkitchen]

I had the HX35 7 blade in the bolt on housing and link would estimate a tad over 500hp on all the pulls that I did once I turned the boost up to 30psi. I was on 94 octane and water/meth.

 

[92AWDHX40]

After my friend john made 406 on his sd set up with e 85 and 272 cams Im leaning to get a hx 35 set up.

 

[untouchablecc]

After my friend john made 406 on his sd set up with e 85 and 272 cams Im leaning to get a hx 35 set up.

E85. Being the key word here. Along with water meth. On pump gas it just seems like they are too knock happy but if you have access to E85 or like running water meth then its not a bad deal. 16g spool and 50-70 more hp with the ability to rev out higher then 6500. I was going to go this route again but I do not have e85 and Im not sure if I want water meth for a dd. Most people land around 350-370 on pump with an hx35 in a .55 bep, and a lot better numbers on higher octane.

On a side note for the power that a hx35 bep makes on pump im 90 percent sure im just going td05 20g with some tweaks and hoping for around 350 on pump gas. If I want to go meth I can get crazy with timing and hopefully make closer to 400.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yes we have e85 here in town so the option is there, not 100 percent on turbo set up yet , got some other things to look at still. So well see.

 

[untouchablecc]

Yes we have e85 here in town so the option is there, not 100 percent on turbo set up yet , got some other things to look at still. So well see.

Don't get me wrong I liked the turbo set up on a stock engine. It was fun and being able to rev higher was fun but it didnt feel leaps and bounds better then an MHI turbo set up. Thats awesome you have e85. There are people making good times and numbers on the hx35 but I like it much better on a higher compression bottom end and a less restrictive exhaust housing. .55 is just knock happy.

 

[ram rt]

The point to the newbie forums.. is reading the non-newbie forums and forming questions based on what you read vs. your current understanding to then start a thread in the newbie forum.

Giving advice as someone who has just started to research renders a "blind leading the blind" situation. This is how bad info stays in circulation or new bad info enters the picture.

Hence the criticism.

I'm not sure what your getting at but I figured a smaller turbo then the black would be amazing in the twisties (my assumption of course is the slower spool time of the black compared to an hx35/fp red or green). Maybe I haven't considered the 500hp goal as much as I've considering the roads mentioned and what kind of power band I feel would be useful. Back to the drawing board I guess.

 

[untouchablecc]

^^ I feel the same as you. The only car I think of that does well on 500 hp and corners are like corvettes and cars like it. To have a dsm with 500 hp and to be snappy in and out of turns you would want a 2.3 with a twin scroll manifold or a 2.4. Most 500 hp dsms are straight line cars because of the lag that comes with making that kinda power.

Just my perspective though. I mean Andrew Brilliant was doing it in a fwd convertable for road racing but it seemed like the car did better in the straights then in the corners at that power level.

 

[ram rt]

^^ I feel the same as you. The only car I think of that does well on 500 hp and corners are like corvettes and cars like it. To have a dsm with 500 hp and to be snappy in and out of turns you would want a 2.3 with a twin scroll manifold or a 2.4. Most 500 hp dsms are straight line cars because of the lag that comes with making that kinda power.

Just my perspective though. I mean Andrew Brilliant was doing it in a fwd convertable for road racing but it seemed like the car did better in the straights then in the corners at that power level.

I agree but I'll add most of the cars making 500hp (with more usable power) usually have more weight to them. Which in many cases offsets the advantage of the power. Great tires and a snappy 350-400whp with some suspension mods would be my take on the best way to go on a 2L that's being used in such a manner but 500 would pull like a freight train on the straights. Guess alot rides on preference. Let us know which turbo you end up with and your impressions

 

[sydkic295]

So did the OP decide one which turbo he gonna go with? and who's going to break their track record this year?

 

[BlackGSXEclipse]

I'm still undecided on what turbo I'm going to run. I'm leaning more towards the black because I've rode in an Evo 9 with basic bolt ons, Kelford 272s, and a jb fp black. And it's a solid car in the twisties and straights, and spool isn't near as laggy as what everyone thinks, he's seeing full boost(26 psi) by 4200 rpm.

 

[untouchablecc]

Thats not too bad of spool time. My Hy didnt come alive till 3800 or so and full spool wasn't at 4200. The hx in a 12cm housing was even worse. I still would go for the hx40 in a bep if it came down to a black or that. Just my 2 pennies though.

 

[bigassogre]

i have an hx35 on my basket case talon that isnt finished yet. hopefully im reasonably satisfied with it. if not i think ill ###### do something along the lines of .81ar t67

 

[VRP]

If your not going to drag race , Get a HTA68...Instant power right off idle..

 

[JusMX141]

If your not going to drag race , Get a HTA68...Instant power right off idle...and absolutely zero chance of reaching 500whp on pump gas.

Fixed.

 

[VRP]

Fixed.

Forgot...your an FP Hater...

 

[snowborder714]

If you have facts to support that an HTA68 can do 500hp on pump gas, please post them up. Otherwise, I'd say his statement was based on facts and his knowledge of turbos.

 

[VRP]

If you have facts to support that an HTA68 can do 500hp on pump gas, please post them up. Otherwise, I'd say his statement was based on facts and his knowledge of turbos. Plus I am his roomate..

Fixed......

Moderators shoudnt alter peoples post..


Plenty of 68's on this forum running low 11's High 10's.....Simple physics.

 

[JusMX141]

Forgot...your an FP Hater...

Just because FP builds something doesn't mean it automatically makes 500whp.

The 68HTA is basically a billet 18G by wheel specs. 18G's don't make 500whp on pump gas.

Plenty of 68's on this forum running low 11's High 10's.....Simple physics.

On properly-built race cars, sure. While we're making examples, there are Evo III 16G's in the low 10's...so apparently everyone looking to go 10's should use an Evo III 16G.

If a 68HTA is so-capable, why did you choose a Black? Isn't a Black overkill for mid 10's?

 

[VRP]

Just because FP builds something doesn't mean it automatically makes 500whp.

The 68HTA is basically a billet 18G by wheel specs. 18G's don't make 500whp on pump gas.


On properly-built race cars, sure. While we're making examples, there are Evo III 16G's in the low 10's...so apparently everyone looking to go 10's should use an Evo III 16G.

If a 68HTA is so-capable, why did you choose a Black? Isn't a Black overkill for mid 10's?

Thanks for the lesson..
Ran a 68 all last summer into the High 10's.(Over 20 Races).Sorry you dont know everybodys situation...Michael knows our setup well...

 

[JusMX141]

Classic "FP > Everything Else" mentality.

The 68HTA is an excellent choice for someone looking for a 100% bolt-on stock-appearing turbo that performs better than any 16G on the market, hands-down....no argument there. It was designed to bridge the gap between a 16G and 20G better than the 18G and it does an amazing job at that, providing 16G spool with 20G+ airflow. However, the TD05H turbine holds the 68HTA back from making any serious power on pump gas.

Trouble the O.P.'s running into is a quick-spooling, budget-minded turbo isn't going to make 500hp on pump. He can either shell out for a 30R variant and get the spool he needs, but the price of everything needed isn't going to be too affordable.

This post from another thread where the user has a similar goal basically sums it up:

Unfortunately you can't have a quick-spooling DSM bolt-on pump gas turbo that is capable of 450whp....it just doesn't exist. You have to be able to sacrifice something:

- You can have a 450+hp DSM bolt-on turbo that spools fast, but you're not going to get away with running pump gas. (Example - FP 71HTA)

- You can have a quick-spooling turbo that works great with pump gas, but you're not making 450+whp. (Examples - Evo III 16G, TD05H 20G, FP 68HTA)

- You can have a 450+hp DSM bolt-on pump gas turbo, but it's not going to spool fast. (Examples - Bullseye S256, Holset HX35/HX40, FP DSM 76, Green XL, Red)

 

[TalonSpeed]

The FP black in 8cm housing is comparable to HX40 in 55 bep housing. I am basing this on the hours of searching and reading peoples setup. The FP black performs better on Evos do to their exhaust manifold and housings.

Something I have noticed with the FP Black JB and even the DBB version is thrust bearing issues and a the turbo is really sensitive to the oil and oil line setup.
FP Black JB goes on sale for about $800 once a year on Black Friday. Porting it to a 60mm (7cm2) inlet cost $100. HX40 rebuilt $550 + $300 bep housing that comes 60mm.

So price is about the same. Even though they flow the same 68 lb/min the HX40 seems to lay down more power, I guess because of its high boost efficiency.

With a Black Talon (aka project Black Bird.....think X-Men) I was stuck on the FP Black. But I am seeing way too many thrust bearing issues on this forum and the evo forum. Seems like the black in DSM housing is only good for 30-35psi. The HX40 has been pushed to 40-44psi.

Do remember the FP Black seems to only go on sale once a year. If not onsale I think they cost $1200 for the JB version and $2000 for DBB version. At that price I could go twin scroll HX40 and blow that FP Black away!

BUT I AM NO EXPERT.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

^ thr black has a way smaller turbine then the hx40 therefore the hx40 will flow more. I'm not sure what the fp black tdo6 turbine is but the holset is a 76/64 which is a larger exducer then the pte 66 turbines and even the fp3794 but with a 2mm smaller inducer. Thats why the hx40 is high boost efficient. It lacks on the compressor side vs the black with the hta86 compressor 62/86 vs the holsets 60/85 as per holsets website

The hx40 i wouldnt consider quick spooling at all.

 

[Agent Ezzard]

Dear OP,

I have a BEP HX35 and and have been considering my options for since the Black was released. I've looked at PTE and FP selections and have been leaning toward the Black for reasons of keeping my manifold and 02 housing.

Don't get captivated with HP numbers.

The HX35 spools great, feels solid, and has a nice power curve. However, it doesn't feel like it pulls as hard as I would like to up top and I'm perfectly fine with sacrificing some of the spool for longer legs.

Bottom line is get what you feel you'd be happy with. Get data from similar type setups you plan on running in similar cars.

 

[DSMer541]

I haven't ran a HX-35 or 40 so I can't compare, but just for reference here is my Dyno chart on a JB FP black (not ported), ported FP manifold, low compression 2.0L 6-bolt motor ( 8:1 Wossner pistons ), ported head, HKS 272 cams, stock intake manifold, E-85, touching 34 psi.

 

[TalonSpeed]

Thats a lot of boost on a FP Black.