Forged Rebuild

[swarm]

Ok, First - there is way too much information on this site to get a clear answer sometimes.
That being said, I have a few questions.

I have a '94 GSX, with the following mods
50 trim Garrett FP Green polished turbo
Apexi downpipe and 3" catback exhaust
Walbro fuel pump
EVO manifold
HKS 264/272 cams, crower titanium valve spring retainers
Redline stand alone fuel management
660 injectors
ACT 2600 clutch
Fidanza flywheel
Greddy BOV
Tial wastegate
dual electric cooling fans
4in core big-ass FMIC

Anyhow, It now has crank play, so I am going to throw in a 6bolt. I have a 6bolt block available, and need some advice as to which internals to go with. I want it to be reliable, and be able to take everything that turbo can throw at it. Do not think that price is a big issue, but I do not want it to be unreliable, and I am not planning on breaking 9's, so don't just throw out a "Dream motor". I am going to send this to a shop (JAM, FFWD?) to be assembled and machined because the machine shops here are below par. Anyhow, does anyone have any suggestions as to which combo to go?

Goals are to have a very fast, streetable DSM - but it must be reliable. I do not drive around beating on it all the time, but it does see track days.

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

The classic eagle rods/wiseco pistons combo. That should hold to 500 easy, 600 if it's tuned right.

 

[swarm]

I'm thinking of buying the JAM~StageII 4g63 Turbo Shortblock+500whp setup, found on their website. Any better options? I have experience building motors, but machine shops here suck.

 

[brute]

In my opinion, they are way too expensive. But that might just be me. I'm sure there's got to be a good machine shop around there somewhere. They survive on the "word on the street," so if they did bad work, they probably wouldn't be in business. And there's nothing they need to know special about these motors. It'd be a simple hot tank, hone, and what-not.

I suggest pricing everything out. Usually, machine shops can get discounted prices from manufacturers, so if parts are cheaper through them vs. online, buy them through the shop. Then just assemble it yourself. The only thing they have to do is press the rods onto the pistons and the machine work. Then, you can take all your new parts and bearings, and assemble it yourself. That'd be the budget-minded way (the way I just did mine), and it worked out to be pretty cheap.

Oh yea, I also suggest the good 'ol Eagle/Wiseco. Or, if you want different compression than what Wiseco offers, you can always go with Ross. Slowboy actually has a pretty good deal on the setup. Here's the link. Personally, I would try to stay away from Slowboy, though. It was just meant to be an example.

 

[swarm]

I am also considering doing just that, having a local machine shop do some easy stuff, and then use 2g pistons/1g rods. or 1g rods/wiseco, because wiseco's are easier to find than 2g pistons. I already have 1g rods available... this may be the route i go.. i want to max this FP GREEN out safely... will this do?

 

[Street Surgeon]

Just my .02c, but I would go with a 6-bolt eagle/ross or maybe eagle/wiseco combo. After a little research I've found that sometimes Wiseco's can crack on or around the skirts for mystery reasons and have even seen this happen in person on my little brothers 240SX back when it was making 487whp on a perfect tune! Took the motor apart for inspection after one seasons worth of racing and there were some hairline cracks in the skirts of the Wisecos!!!

Also, my motor was built by JAM and so far so good, but let me tell you this. The people there will NOT give you a build sheet on the motor, and in general get very defensive when I asked ANYTHING about it, tolernaces, clearances etc, and got very adjitated whenever I asked basically..... Anything. I would and will opt for a different shop next time, oh and yeah they're super pricey.

 

[swarm]

Just my .02c, but I would go with a 6-bolt eagle/ross or maybe eagle/wiseco combo. After a little research I've found that sometimes Wiseco's can crack on or around the skirts for mystery reasons and have even seen this happen in person on my little brothers 240SX back when it was making 487whp on a perfect tune! Took the motor apart for inspection after one seasons worth of racing and there were some hairline cracks in the skirts of the Wisecos!!!

Also, my motor was built by JAM and so far so good, but let me tell you this. The people there will NOT give you a build sheet on the motor, and in general get very defensive when I asked ANYTHING about it, tolernaces, clearances etc, and got very adjitated whenever I asked basically..... Anything. I would and will opt for a different shop next time, oh and yeah they're super pricey.

You would do this JUST to max out the FP GREEN 50 trim?

 

[snox135]

I would go with Scat rods over Eagle. I've seen too many problems with eagles manufacturing tolerances. Eagles are good rods but make sure you check them before installing them. Either of thes rods will be much more reliable than used 1g rods. If you are staying with 2.0 you have alot of options for good pistons. I just wish there were more 2.4 pistons out there.

 

[swarm]

Again, my goals are to merely max out the 50 trim FP green - I mean yeah, I could go overkill on the internals and spend $2k on a piston/rod combo, but why? It's just a 50 trim... Wouldn't 1g big rods+2g or wiseco pistons do just as well? a good 8.5:1 setup with 50 trim at 8.5:1 CR would do good, right? That would allow me to max the 50 trim at about 500hp, and still be pretty reliable? I will never upgrade this turbo.

 

[snox135]

Yes the 1g rods/2g pistons will hold 500hp, but you will be at that upper limits of them. You will need to have a good tune all the time. You said you want it reliable, and price is not a big issue. Rods are about $320 and pistons around $400-450, no where near $2k.

 

[Street Surgeon]

I mean yeah, I could go overkill on the internals and spend $2k on a piston/rod combo, but why? ood, right?

Well, I'm not sure who you get your parts through but if you dig around you can get a new eagle/wiseco combo for less than 750 shipped. Hardly 2k, as for what I would do, well these cars tend to break stuff, and I like to go above and beyond wherever I can.

The answer you're looking for is "You don't need forged rods." and that's true, but it sure as hell would be a good idea.

 

[T9S1i]

I second the skat rods over the eagles. I chose them for my build not for any tolerances or word of mouth or anything but because the stock 6-bolt big rods have an oiling hole on the rod a couple of inches under the piston hole that adds extra oiling on the walls of the cyl's. The eagles did not have this hole, however the skat rods do. That was the only difference that i could see between the two rods and if it comes stock with the oiling hole, why would you put performance rods that didnt have that hole?

Just my $00.02, but it may help you.

On another note. Im trying to do the same thing as you. I blew my motor, and i wanted a nice, light, strong motor to pretty much run a 50 trim to its max. Im shooting for somewhere near 400 hp and 12's on pump and 11's on race gas. I chose skat rods, weisco 8.3 pistons, fidanza flywheel. DKS 264/272 cams, manley springs and retainers, mitsu mls head gasket.
The motor is in the car, and i have perfect compression across the board. It feels great around town and off boost with the lightened rotating assembly and should be fun once i up the boost come march when my local track opens.

best of luck to ya with your build!

 

[swarm]

Thanks for all the info. T9S1i, you will have no trouble hitting your 12's goal. I went 12.3 on 18psi on the stock 7bolt bottom end with a ported/polished/hks cammed head, and all supporting mods.. I was also on MLS gasket.

I just got thinking about this more, and even though I do have a 6bolt block available, I would need to change clutch/flywheel combo, as well as drill the block or head for the studs to match, right? Also I will need to send back my 7bolt gasket kit to JNZtuning... Blah.. Ideas?

 

[Street Surgeon]

I'm sure the perfect posting police will be all over me but if I remember correctly I believe the clutch pressureplate and disc are interchangeable, it's been so long I can't remember anymore. Anyone?

 

[project_tsi]

All turbo DSM clutches will bolt up the same, 6 bolt, 7 bolt, FWD, AWD, it doesn't matter, the clutch will bolt up the same.

The flywheels however are different. You must you the specific flywheel for your application.
I.E. 6 bolt AWD, 6 bolt FWD, 7 bolt AWD or 7 bolt FWD.

 

[canucatchdis]

I have scat rods, and weisco pistons. However, I am running a stroker motor. But my opinion is since your deep in your engine and doing all this work, you might as well just spend the extra 300 - 400 bucks and get a nice set of connecting rods and not worry about it for the future.

 

[TSisleeper]

hey man just throughing my 2 cents out here. I'm doing a 2.0L 6 bolt 1g right now and I'm going with mahle pistons and carillo A beam rods. The main reason I'm choosing the carillo / mahle combo is for weight savings (rods are 520g vs 1g rods are 695g and pistons are 250g vs 1g's @??? but it's alot more then 250) I like the fast reving motors. Also I'm only running a gt35r so this would easily handle my HP goals (500+whp on pump). I don't planning on reving past 8500 or so anyway and reliability is top priority. I've used the rods before and the pistons have a good rep from the ppl I've talked to that are running them for DD duties. It's not the cheapest, or the easiest, or the most common, but I'm not trying to be like everyone else and I like to use stuff that other people don't. It's a good way to get some real time R&D for tech articales. Anyway I'm getting my parts (rods / pistons ) from SBR. Hope this helped or at least got you intrested in doing some more research b4 starting your build. Oh and I've made over 700whp so I'm not just guessing about what works either. The posters b4 me are right about the things they've mentioned, shame on Wiesco

-- Jayson

 

[swarm]

Ok, so I have been pretty much set on going stroker, with Scat rods and Ross pistons - how will this do, guys? SBR sells the kit for $1200 with a remanufactured crank, and I will get all the machine work here locally. Opinions?

 

[swarm]

FFWD XP-R kit is $1800 for a seemingly good setup.. opinions?

 

[projekt1]

hey man just throughing my 2 cents out here. I'm doing a 2.0L 6 bolt 1g right now and I'm going with mahle pistons and carillo A beam rods. The main reason I'm choosing the carillo / mahle combo is for weight savings (rods are 520g vs 1g rods are 695g and pistons are 250g vs 1g's @??? but it's alot more then 250) I like the fast reving motors. Also I'm only running a gt35r so this would easily handle my HP goals (500+whp on pump). I don't planning on reving past 8500 or so anyway and reliability is top priority. I've used the rods before and the pistons have a good rep from the ppl I've talked to that are running them for DD duties. It's not the cheapest, or the easiest, or the most common, but I'm not trying to be like everyone else and I like to use stuff that other people don't. It's a good way to get some real time R&D for tech articales. Anyway I'm getting my parts (rods / pistons ) from SBR. Hope this helped or at least got you intrested in doing some more research b4 starting your build. Oh and I've made over 700whp so I'm not just guessing about what works either. The posters b4 me are right about the things they've mentioned, shame on Wiesco

-- Jayson

Hey Jason, how did this setup work out for you?

Yea hella old thread sorry..