2G Fluid barely coming out while bleeding (URGENT)

[MeteorBurn]

Hello all,

I just finished up replacing rear drums, shoes, hardware and both wheel cylinders in my 1998 RS eclipse. I found one of the wheel cylinders was leaking badly, which is why I replaced both. Everything went well, except the bleeding. I've never done bleeding before, but I have done my fair share of auto repair on the family cars so I thought I was up to it.

I did the one person method, in which a clear hose was submerged in a container of clean brake fluid, and connected to the bleeder nipple. When I open the bleeder, barely any fluid goes comes out. I start opening it more, then the bleeder starts leaking at the threads. Is this normal? Even so, once I managed to loosen it just enough that it won't leak out of the threads but fluid starts coming out of nipple, when I go to pump the brakes, the fluid barely moves through the tube.

When I watch videos of people bleeding the brakes, the moment they press the brake pedal, fluid rapidly travels through the hose. I've been trying all day and I can't seem to get the fluid to go anymore then halfway through the hose. The hose is higher than the bleeder nipple. This was on the passenger rear wheel.

When I did the driver side rear, I tried turning the key to ON (engine not running) to see if it made a difference. For a short moment I was able to get the fluid flowing nicely into the hose, but after 1 top off of the master cylinder the fluid went back to moving slowly. I never during any of this let the master cylinder run dry.

I'm about to pull my hair out, I have a family member who relies on this car and I really need to get it back to them ASAP. I understand a mechanic would have been more efficient, but I thought since I did all the brake work perfectly I could manage bleeding them too.

Sorry for the wall of text but any help from you DSM gurus would be most appreciated!

 

[pauleyman]

How many times did you push the pedal? Once wont do it

 

[MeteorBurn]

Thanks for the reply. I pumped the pedal at least 4-5 times with each attempt, no difference, the fluid just goes 1/3 way into the hose and then stops. If I take the bleeder all the way out fluid will run out. I have no idea what's going on.

 

[EC17PSE]

I think you have air trapped in your MC and prop valve, wmand if you do you have to bleed that which is a 2 man job and a tad fiddly to do, have you ever done this before for the MC?

You need to take the 2 MC lines off the prop valve and self bleed them lines into the res tank and once no air comes out get the person to hold down the pedal while you attach the lines back to the prop valve,
Its alot easier to do with stainless flexi lines then with hard lines but i find its the most overlooked part when people do brakes and the res lost alot of fluid,

I redid mine over the weekend and i did it first time and i stsrted from my method above

 

[MeteorBurn]

Before I even began taking apart the brakes, I checked the fluid in the master cylinder - it was still full. You think it might have gone low at some point while driving? When I say badly leaking I mean when I peeled back the rubber cups on the wheel cylinder a lot of fluid ran out, but otherwise no fluid was getting on the ground. So air in the master cylinder could prevent the fluid from coming out all the way out of the bleeders?

 

[Vegas Smith]

A little unrelated, but do a search on what speed bleeders your car needs and order them up. I'll never use regular bleeders again. I have speed bleeders all throughout my car and it takes about 1 minute to bleed everything.

Also, there is a fine line between opening the bleeder too much and allowing the brake fluid to spill through the threads and having it just go though the valve.

 

[MeteorBurn]

I'd be happy to get some, think it might fix my problem? I'm reading a few other places, could it be my proportioning valve is stuck because one of the wheel cylinders was leaking?

 

[Vegas Smith]

I'd be happy to get some, think it might fix my problem? I'm reading a few other places, could it be my proportioning valve is stuck because one of the wheel cylinders was leaking?

I'm not sure if it will fix your problem but for $10 you can bleed your own stuff without any help. So your brake caliper is leaking?

 

[MeteorBurn]

No the rear passenger wheel cylinder was leaking, I replaced both sides during the brake job.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

He has an RS, drum brake rear.

 

[zotis777]

Bleeding with conventional bleed screws is a 2 person job but an easy one, are the screws nasty and covered in road grime?


It sounds dumb but is there any chance the fluid is getting to where the clear tube turns and just running down the tube? Sounds like a stupid thing to think of, but sometimes we overlook totally ridiculous things and don’t realize

 

[MeteorBurn]

Thanks for the replies everyone. When I watch the bleeding videos, the position of the hose doesn't seem to matter -the fluid rapidly travels down and begins filling up the bottle. When I do it, the best it can get is maybe an inch away from getting inside the bottle, and the master cylinder fluid level is barely dropping. The bleeders are brand new and came with the wheel cylinders.

This the bleeder I bought: https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Tech...1&refRID=N55RZJZ6N6N1JPV9M7XG#customerReviews

If the lanyard rivet was not airtight, do you think that could make a difference?

I tried the two person method, but the fluid still seems to get "stuck" in the hose. However, at least now I can see the bubbles clearly going through the hose. I did it 4 or 5 times each side until I saw no more bubbles, the pedal feels pretty solid now. I'm gonna take it for a quick spin around the block and report back.

 

[MeteorBurn]

No good, the pedal just went straight to the floor. It was definitely firm before I started the car. The pedal did not get any firmer even when I pumped it while driving. I have no other ideas, and I'm really getting frustrated now. I feel like bleeding the brakes shouldn't be this hard. I just can't seem to get the fluid to go through the container hose - I can pump the brake all day and it only moves like 4 inches!

Does the car need to be on? That's what the FSM says, but that seems dangerous and unnecessary.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Describe to me word for word how you are bleeding the brakes.

 

[MeteorBurn]

1. Rear of car is jacked up and on stands
2. Master cylinder is full
3. I connect the hose of the bleeder I bought to the bleeder nipple (https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Tech...rd_wg=yO88O&psc=1&refRID=7JPHWHFZ5YXWA3CW8DZB). I have it sitting on a small container, with the clear hose curved higher then the bleeder valve. The bleeder is full of clean brake fluid and the inside hose is submerged.
4. I crack open the bleeder valve. Barely anything comes out.
5. I slowly press and release the brake pedal several times.
6. I go to check the bleeder, and find that the fluid only moved maybe 3 - 4 inches through the hose coming out of the bleeder nipple.
7. I keep pumping the brakes, and still the fluid won't move.
8. The master cylinder barely loses any fluid during this process, unlike in other bleeding guides where each corner of the car typically requires a top-off of the master cylinder.
9. If I take out the bleeder valve completely, fluid will run out and begin dripping onto the floor, so there isn't a blockage in the line.
10. Right now I have only attempted this process for the rear wheel cylinders, I didn't touch the front brakes so I should only have to bleed the rear.

All I can think of is:
- The bleeder I bought is defective somehow
- Something is preventing flow to rear wheel cylinders

Thanks for taking the time to help me out, I'd feel really sucky if I had to take it to a shop just for bleeding.

 

[DogWhistle]

Bleeding the brakes has to prevent air from being drawn into the brake lines when the pedal is released.

The reason people use the 2-person method, is to have the bleeder screw retightened before you release the pedal.

Chances are good that with your pump and release technique, you have sucked air back into the brake lines.

Get a volunteer to operate the pedal for you. Have them press and release the brake pedal twice, and then hold the pedal down while you open the bleed screw. Now, re-tighten the bleed screw, and have them release the brake pedal. Repeat the process until all the bubbles stop emitting from the lines.

 

[pauleyman]

That bottle should just be a hose that goes to the bottom. The other nipple is just open to atmosphere. Make sure you can blow through the hose. Also make sure its not completely on the bottom. I use a section of hose and a mason jar and some binder clips to hold the hose in place. Done it that way for 30 years.

 

[Vegas Smith]

1) Loosen the valve just a little more if no fluid is coming out
2) You must use the 2 person method unless you have speed bleeders. This is a must as far as I'm aware.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Like others have said you've been bleeding wrong. You have to close the bleeder line before you let the pedal go up. Also don't forget to leave the master cylinder cap cracked open (you didn't mention it). I.e. loosened but sitting on top so junk doesn't fall into the fluid, but so air can be drawn in.

You can also use a check valve inline with the bleeder line, something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-0...741&sr=8-1&keywords=brake+bleeder+check+valve
I've used this with great success and bring it to track events just in case I need a quick bleed.

Another system that I find superior when at home is using a vacuum based system that "sucks" (well really it removes pressure allowing the atmosphere to press fluid through) fluid on the output side of your bleed line. You basically crack open the bleeder and use air pressure from an air compressor to draw the fluid through the system. Here's one, though not the brand I have (and I can't remember the brand off the top of my head) but looks just like mine:
https://www.amazon.com/BikeMaster-V...9518969&sr=1-9&keywords=vacuum+bleeder+brakes

Lastly you can try the motive Power bleeder which instead uses a cap on the master cylinder and pressure to push fluid through the system, but I found that to be absolute shit for various reasons.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

My 12v fluid transfer pump works great for pulling fluid through the line and master cylinder. I hook it up at the bleeder, turn it on, put a "P" trap loop in it and it sucks all the air and some fluid. I do this when I am by myself. You have to keep the fluid level topped off though so it doesn't go dry and give you more headaches.
The 2 person method was always my favorite, if you have a 2nd person but all the above will work, just in different ways.

 

[steve]

My wife is now an expert at pushing the pedal while I open and close the bleeder valves. I find that it works much better than vacuum bleeding with my handheld pump.

I also find that I have to put a little teflon tape on the threads of the bleeders to keep them from leaking fluid and air. Just on the thread making sure none hangs down to foul the seat.

 

[MeteorBurn]

Okay, I did the two person method as described. I now can get the bleeder bottle to fill up, and I've topped off the master cylinder twice now. On the last bleeding session I got only clear fluid running out (good sign) and the bubbles stopped coming. I took it for a quick run, pedal feels better now and car can stop, but I can't get the brakes to slam like before I started. Also, the pedal still doesn't feel very solid, not much resistance. Should I keep on bleeding? I stopped seeing bubbles so I thought I was in the clear.

 

[zotis777]

You’re almost there, try it again and try some light taps on the flexible line and banjo bolt, I’ve had stubborn bubbles get trapped and wiggled them free that way.

 

[MeteorBurn]

Sorry for the late update.
Okay, finally got the pedal to feel good again. Car throws me out of the seat now when I brake. Good idea zotis about tapping the lines, I got a few extra bubbles to come out. I also discovered that I did not adjust the brakes properly. I mistakenly assumed auto adjust meant auto adjust, but in car speak that means it doesn't adjust for massive gaps, just wear in the shoes. As such, the shoes were too far from the drums. I moved the shoes outward until they hit the drum, then I backed it off just a hair. I also bled the brakes 1 or 2 more times.

For anyone else having trouble or has not done bleeding before like me, just go with the two person method and keep at it, life will be restored to your brake pedal soon enough.

Thanks again guys, great community. Now I can say I can bleed brakes!