Feedback On GSX Setup

[Shane2GSX]

First off, I have done plenty of research on the different aspects of my setup as well as different profiles of people with similar times as my goals. I'm hoping the mods below will get me to my goals, and from the research I've done I think they will. However, this is just a rough draft (for lack of better term) of my planned setup. All constructive criticism is welcome. If anyone has any comments or suggestions please post. Thanks.

Platform:
1999 GSX - 56,000 Miles (Completely Stock) MT
Not my Daily Driver

Goals:
Low to mid 12 second 1/4 time *EDIT* On Pump Gas *EDIT*
Hoping for something in the range or 300-350 AWD HP
Stock weight

Initial Mod List:
Boost, EGT Guages
Apexi N1 3" Catback
Apexi 2.75" DP
Colder Plugs
Dejon Tool Intake
Blitz SS BOV (old style)
Greddy Profec B BC
ACT 2100 or 2600 *EDIT*
Apexi SAFC II
GM MAF
MAFT
Walbro 190 or 255 *EDIT*
650's
Evo III 16G (ported) or 20G not sure which yet
FMIC w/short route 2.25" piping

Future:
DSM Link
Light weight racing rims
Cams


Updated Mod List: (Edited*)
NGK 7's
K & N Intake Filter - Installed
Blitz Dual Turbo Timer - Installed
A-Pillar Pod (Gaugepods.com) - Installed
Boost, EGT, and Oil Pressure Gauges (Autometer) - Installed
Megan Racing 3" DP and Catback - Installed
Blitz SS BOV (Old Style) - Installed
Hallman MBC - Installed
3" Dejon Tool Intake
Megan Racing Short Throw Shifter* - Installed
Symborski Shift Kit* - Installed
SBR 3500 Clutch*
XACT Streetlight Flywheel*
PLX M-300 Wideband Kit
Walbro 255*
AFPR
PTE 780cc Injectors (not sure which)
95' EPROM ECU - Have
DSM Link
50 Trim (PTE T-Tech Ball Bearing 5031)
38mm Tial WG off O2*
VP O2 Housing (Recirculated)*
Ported 2G Manifold*
XS Power FMIC Kit - Have
ARP Headstuds & Headgasket*

Future:
264 HKS Cams
Lighter Weight Rims
Springs*

 

[Dark_Horse]

As 2gGSX said, you do not need a GMAF/t for your goals. The $350 can be spent elsewhere. IMHO if you did not have an SAFC, then maybe a GMAF/t would be a good idea, (you can use it to tune with a pocketlogger with no SAFC).

With that said based on your list above, if you get rid of the MAFT, change to a Walbro 190lph and sell your SAFC, that should put you within ~$200 of the mods you wanted.

Though, if you scratched the DSMlink, you could just tune with the SAFC you've got. Scratch another $700 from your budget. Since at present time, your goals really don't need a DSMlink either. (blasphemy from a dsmlink owner)

That way, if in the future, you decide to step the HP goals up, you could sell the SAFC and buy the dsmlink with no harm done...

 

[Shane2GSX]

As 2gGSX said, you do not need a GMAF/t for your goals. The $350 can be spent elsewhere. IMHO if you did not have an SAFC, then maybe a GMAF/t would be a good idea, (you can use it to tune with a pocketlogger with no SAFC).

With that said based on your list above, if you get rid of the MAFT, change to a Walbro 190lph and sell your SAFC, that should put you within ~$200 of the mods you wanted.

Though, if you scratched the DSMlink, you could just tune with the SAFC you've got. Scratch another $700 from your budget. Since at present time, your goals really don't need a DSMlink either. (blasphemy from a dsmlink owner)

That way, if in the future, you decide to step the HP goals up, you could sell the SAFC and buy the dsmlink with no harm done...

That is very true and in fact getting rid of the whole MAFT thing helps to uncomplicate things. I'm not sure venting is worth all that complication or money for that matter. However, if I used the SAFC to tune with, can it be used to tune on 650's? I'll still need a pocketlogger won't I? If that's the case, might as well go ahead and sell the SAFC and start saving up for DSMLink.

 

[Shane2GSX]

You do *not* need this as a tuning tool (as in you either don't plan on overrunning your 2g MAS or you plan on using DSMLink to compensate).

Once you get DSMLink however you won't need the AFC, any other logger or the MAFT (for tuning). I would say save up for DSMLink first before putting your injectors in, as you'll have a much easier time compensating for them that way.

You also do not absolutely need the 255hp lph fuel pump right now, the rewired 190 will do fine for people into the mid 40 lbs/min airflow range. Should you stick with the 255 lph though you will need an aftermarket AFPR to keep from overrunning the stock FPR.

I thought the 190 was only good for lower 40 lbs/min airflow. Maybe that's without rewiring?? I don't know. Doesn't the Evo III flow max at 44 lbs/min? What if I decide to upgrade to a larger turbo such as a 50 trim, shouldn't I get a larger fuel pump for the future?

 

[Shane2GSX]

Okay, this is making me worry a bit, I can't find any Evo III 16G's around my WHP goal. Most everybody on this page is running a larger turbo. What gives?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dynosheets.php?do=horsepower&perpage=25&page=3

 

[CanadianTSi]

An Evo 3 can deffinitly get you your goal.


I trapped 111mph on my evo 3 on pump gas my first time out, now that was on a weak tune.

That being said, a 50 trim will get you to your goal much easier. I ran the time in my sig on 20psi pump gas and a boost leak.

A 190 pump will take you plenty far as I run 24psi everyday on pump gas with a 190 pump on the stock wire, but I guess thats up to you.

 

[Shane2GSX]

An Evo 3 can deffinitly get you your goal.


I trapped 111mph on my evo 3 on pump gas my first time out, now that was on a weak tune.

That being said, a 50 trim will get you to your goal much easier. I ran the time in my sig on 20psi pump gas and a boost leak.

A 190 pump will take you plenty far as I run 24psi everyday on pump gas with a 190 pump on the stock wire, but I guess thats up to you.

Awesom times man, exactly where I wanna be. I'll for sure run a 190 pump then. What made you switch to the 50 trim? So your setup is tuned on a pocketlogger and SAFC 2?

 

[2gGSX]

The way I think of it, if I don't make good numbers on an Evo III then I probably wouldn't make good numbers on a 50 trim.

The unwired Walbro 190 will only do just over 41 lbs/min (on pump gas*) whereas the rewired will definitely be enough for the Evo III. Most people who hit 40+ lbs/min on the Evo III tend to be on race gas however.

 

[Shane2GSX]

The way I think of it, if I don't make good numbers on an Evo III then I probably wouldn't make good numbers on a 50 trim.

The unwired Walbro 190 will only do just over 41 lbs/min (on pump gas*) whereas the rewired will definitely be enough for the Evo III. Most people who hit 40+ lbs/min on the Evo III tend to be on race gas however.

Well, I don't know how to translate airflow into horsepower, actually I would imagine there are too many variables in between to do anything like that. All I know is I want enough power from the Evo III to get mid twelves on pump gas. If this is not reasonable, then I'll will go with a different turbo. But from what I've seen so far, a full weight 2G GSX does this with around 320 whp, which is within a Evo III's power range. Obviously, when people state horsepower they only give max and that can be deceiving because usable power over the entire RPM range is just as important. But the Evo (again from what I've read) is supposed to have a good power band, spooling up around 2800 rpm's all the way to redline.

 

[2gGSX]

The Evo III does indeed have a nice powerband, although torque peaks early and begins to fall. The horsepower curves on most dyno charts do seem to be pretty strong though.

As far as mid 12's on pump gas, I forsee no problems on a full weight 2g. In fact, that's what I'm aiming for too.

 

[TalonD27A]

I'm not sure why anyone bothers with the Walbro 190. You can never have enough fuel on tap, especially on a turbocharged car. Since the 190 is the same price as the 250 then I would guess it to be a no-brainer. If you have the proper Injectors, FPR with lines & fittings, pump, and control over them then wouldn't you rather know that if you ask the system to give you more it will, then for you to think, maybe I should have bought that larger pump that was the same amount of money and bolted in the same as the one I opted for.
Same goes with turbochargers. You have the Evo 3 Big 16G and you have the Big T28. Basically are both the same turbo as far as power output is concerned. However the B-T28 bolts right with a higher cost on the unit and the B-16G is cheaper, but requires an install kit. Unless you are installing the turbo yourself then the turbos are really the same price since installation will cost more for the B-16G than the bolt-in B-T28. Not to mention the turndown on the B-T28 is much better than the J-pipe design on the B-16G and the B-T28 looks like a stock turbo to the eye when bolted in.. The J-pipe has issues with leaks and loss of air volume equals less HP. Spool up will be the same and turbo porting should be opted for with either turbo. Good place to purchase from would be Foredperformance.net

 

[calcifer]

Because with a 190 you don't NEED a fuel pressure regulator, so you save a bunch of money right there.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Awesom times man, exactly where I wanna be. I'll for sure run a 190 pump then. What made you switch to the 50 trim? So your setup is tuned on a pocketlogger and SAFC 2?

I switched because I fell into an awesome deal, I would have loved to push the Evo alot harder, I only ever ran it at 20psi...

And yes I tune it myself with only a logger and the S-AFC.

 

[TalonD27A]

Because with a 190 you don't NEED a fuel pressure regulator, so you save a bunch of money right there.

If saving 50-300.00 on a adjustable FPR is a concern to a DSM owner, over something that should be on the car, then they shouldn't be modifying their DSM.

 

[2gGSX]

If saving 50-300.00 on a adjustable FPR is a concern to a DSM owner, over something that should be on the car, then they shouldn't be modifying their DSM.

It doesn't need to be on the car until a rewired 190 won't suffice, eg over 400 whp. Once again, not his goals.

 

[calcifer]

If saving 50-300.00 on a adjustable FPR is a concern to a DSM owner, over something that should be on the car, then they shouldn't be modifying their DSM.

That's silly, a large part of the DSM community is about making good power cheap, and you do NOT need an aftermarket regulator for a 190, and certainly not for a stock pump so why do you say you MUST have one?

 

[TalonD27A]

That's silly, a large part of the DSM community is about making good power cheap, and you do NOT need an aftermarket regulator for a 190, and certainly not for a stock pump so why do you say you MUST have one?

The stock FPR becomes a progressive one with any added FP and will change the scale on how it regulates fuel. Your overall power output may not be affected since you can tune it in with a wideband and a decent tuning device, but if you don't have control over your base fuel pressure than you're waisting money on gas. Having control over your fuel pressure will help conserve gas mileage for normal driving with less tinkering from and computer control and if cheap is the way to go then a decent tuning device may not have been in the budget. Its like getting a TV without the remote, having one is convenient, not having one is cheaper.

The basis for the comment on the 190 vs the 250 is many DSM owners eventually want more and the 190 will reach its ceiling far before the 250 that is the same price. You can never have enough fuel on tap!

 

[2gGSX]

People will always want more yes, but how many actually achieve 400+ whp? Where have you gotten your info that the stock FPR is progressive? Prove everyone else wrong, I have NEVER heard that the stock FPR is progressive; it is 1:1. In fact, there are often challenges if whether or not aftermarket FPRs are actually 1:1s, but never the stock FPR.

 

[BoostedWilk]

I had just a 255 in my 1g no fpr and had no problems? WTF

 

[Shane2GSX]

I switched because I fell into an awesome deal, I would have loved to push the Evo alot harder, I only ever ran it at 20psi...

And yes I tune it myself with only a logger and the S-AFC.

Is it difficult to tune that way? I know that question is relative. I guess a better question would be is it difficult to tune for someone that has never tuned before? I'm gonna have to do lot's of reading I'm sure..

 

[TalonD27A]

People will always want more yes, but how many actually achieve 400+ whp? Where have you gotten your info that the stock FPR is progressive? Prove everyone else wrong, I have NEVER heard that the stock FPR is progressive; it is 1:1. In fact, there are often challenges if whether or not aftermarket FPRs are actually 1:1s, but never the stock FPR.

Maybe i should have elaborated on it since I was in a hurry to leave work. When the fuel pressure is changed on the stock FPR it does become progressive. It was designed to dump a certain amount of fuel based on stock fuel pressure. When it is increased the injectors are overrun with the extra fuel. I have seen it on the dyno time and time again where the pump was changed with the stock FPR and the a/f changes by at least 1pt and gets worse across the board. Then we try taking fuel out with the a/f controller and it doesn't help. The top end is usually affected the most by the change. After sticking the adjustable FPR the problem is solved. Not every car experiences these problems in the same way and comes out depending on other parts on the car. In the last 8-9yrs not very many DSM's have ever come into or ended up leaving our shop without having a FPR. Again its all a mute point since I'm sure even you'll get one at some point.

 

[Shane2GSX]

I'm now starting to reconsider what turbo I want to have in my setup. Out of most of the looking I've done, it appears that I will be pushing the Evo 3 rather hard to produce the type of HP I want, on pump gas. The more I read the more I think a 50 trim will suit my needs better. It's supposed to be great on pump gas (very important to me), very streetable, I won't be pushing it hard to reach the horsepower I want, and leaves more room for future growth. The only drawbacks I can see is one, that it costs more and two, I'm not sure how the spool characteristics wil be. I don't want too much lag. I was thinking about the Bolt On T04B 50-trim being offered by Bullseye. Any suggestions?

 

[TalonD27A]

I'm now starting to reconsider what turbo I want to have in my setup. Out of most of the looking I've done, it appears that I will be pushing the Evo 3 rather hard to produce the type of HP I want, on pump gas. The more I read the more I think a 50 trim will suit my needs better. It's supposed to be great on pump gas (very important to me), very streetable, I won't be pushing it hard to reach the horsepower I want, and leaves more room for future growth. The only drawbacks I can see is one, that it costs more and two, I'm not sure how the spool characteristics wil be. I don't want too much lag. I was thinking about the Bolt On T04B 50-trim being offered by Bullseye. Any suggestions?

The TO4B will spool just a little slower than the Evo 3, but not enough to worry about. The turbo from Bullseye is a good choice and does give you room to grow. Run with it...

 

[Shane2GSX]

The TO4B will spool just a little slower than the Evo 3, but not enough to worry about. The turbo from Bullseye is a good choice and does give you room to grow. Run with it...

I just hope the internal gate setup will work. I want to be able to turn the boost down to around 15 or so psi just for normal driving and up it to the lower twenties when needed. I contacted Bullseye and they assured me this could be done with no boost creep.

 

[Shane2GSX]

I've come to the point where I'm ready to start buying parts. Because I'm still unsure of which exhaust I want to run (I'm waiting for the Megan Racing 3" to come out for 2g AWD) I'm going to go ahead an order some gauges. I think I'm gonna go with the Autometer boost (mechanical) and egt (electronic) guages. However, I'm unsure as to whether I would need any others with my setup. From everything I read I don't see why I would. If anyone thinks otherwise please let me know.

 

[TalonD27A]

The meter thing is really up to you. I run oil temp, oil press, wide band a/f, and boost, as external meters. The rest is logged through my AEM EMS. EGT isn't really necessary unless you are street tuning without a WB A/F meter or your road racing. It would be smarter to fill a meter spot with one that's going to help with tuning or engine vitals.... WB A/F , oil temp or press

Sounds like Bullseye already answered your questions on the internal gate. They would know their own product better than anyone.