Feedback On GSX Setup

[Shane2GSX]

First off, I have done plenty of research on the different aspects of my setup as well as different profiles of people with similar times as my goals. I'm hoping the mods below will get me to my goals, and from the research I've done I think they will. However, this is just a rough draft (for lack of better term) of my planned setup. All constructive criticism is welcome. If anyone has any comments or suggestions please post. Thanks.

Platform:
1999 GSX - 56,000 Miles (Completely Stock) MT
Not my Daily Driver

Goals:
Low to mid 12 second 1/4 time *EDIT* On Pump Gas *EDIT*
Hoping for something in the range or 300-350 AWD HP
Stock weight

Initial Mod List:
Boost, EGT Guages
Apexi N1 3" Catback
Apexi 2.75" DP
Colder Plugs
Dejon Tool Intake
Blitz SS BOV (old style)
Greddy Profec B BC
ACT 2100 or 2600 *EDIT*
Apexi SAFC II
GM MAF
MAFT
Walbro 190 or 255 *EDIT*
650's
Evo III 16G (ported) or 20G not sure which yet
FMIC w/short route 2.25" piping

Future:
DSM Link
Light weight racing rims
Cams


Updated Mod List: (Edited*)
NGK 7's
K & N Intake Filter - Installed
Blitz Dual Turbo Timer - Installed
A-Pillar Pod (Gaugepods.com) - Installed
Boost, EGT, and Oil Pressure Gauges (Autometer) - Installed
Megan Racing 3" DP and Catback - Installed
Blitz SS BOV (Old Style) - Installed
Hallman MBC - Installed
3" Dejon Tool Intake
Megan Racing Short Throw Shifter* - Installed
Symborski Shift Kit* - Installed
SBR 3500 Clutch*
XACT Streetlight Flywheel*
PLX M-300 Wideband Kit
Walbro 255*
AFPR
PTE 780cc Injectors (not sure which)
95' EPROM ECU - Have
DSM Link
50 Trim (PTE T-Tech Ball Bearing 5031)
38mm Tial WG off O2*
VP O2 Housing (Recirculated)*
Ported 2G Manifold*
XS Power FMIC Kit - Have
ARP Headstuds & Headgasket*

Future:
264 HKS Cams
Lighter Weight Rims
Springs*

 

[JayZDMX21]

For sure get the walbro 255 instead of the 190. But just because your car is modded and you see people with the same setup, dosent mean your going to run the same 1/4 mile time. Remember its also up to how good of a driver your are.

 

[98GSXboosted]

I would say in my opinion i would get a 255 fuel pump and dont waste your money on an a/f gauge unless its a wideband. Replace that with oil pressure or something useful, a/f gauge is the biggest waste of money, it's just a light show. Also buy a turbo timer, that is very important. And for your goals i would go w/ the 16g, i just bought one myself. And instead of cams start saving up for a 6 bolt incase you walk. my engine on my 98 GSX only has 50k and im getting worried about that. But i think 99's arn't as likely as the 95-98.

 

[femmeDSM]

That's similar to my planned setup (although I am 1g), and I have similar goals for mine. I would nix the A/F gauge and go wideband O2, as someone else pointed out. The A/F gauge is just a ricey christmas light display, and means nada. haha. Some turbo timers also have Wideband O2 display, as well as a few other things, so I'd look into getting one of those.

Also, did I see a clutch in there? If not, definitely need to add that, along w/ a lightened flywheel. Since this isn't going to be a daily driver, you can go a little crazy with the drivetrain. . I have an ACT2600 which is okay for street use, but Spec Stage 2's are also awesome (though I don't particularly like using them in traffic, ).

I assume you have logging software to use until you get DSMLink.

 

[Shane2GSX]

For sure get the walbro 255 instead of the 190. But just because your car is modded and you see people with the same setup, dosent mean your going to run the same 1/4 mile time. Remember its also up to how good of a driver your are.

That's true, but gotta have something to go by.

 

[Shane2GSX]

Okay, no A/F gauge. Not sure what Wideband is but I'll do some research on that. I'm guessing it allows more information to pass thru an 02 sensor which would tell u more about the mix.

 

[Shane2GSX]

Also, did I see a clutch in there? If not, definitely need to add that, along w/ a lightened flywheel. Since this isn't going to be a daily driver, you can go a little crazy with the drivetrain. . I have an ACT2600 which is okay for street use, but Spec Stage 2's are also awesome (though I don't particularly like using them in traffic, ).

I assume you have logging software to use until you get DSMLink.

Oh yeah, I forgot the clutch. I was thinking ACT 2100. I've read that it's better to go with the lightest u can get away with to avoid putting unnecessary stress on the crank. I'll research flywheels as well. I was thinking of getting a pocket logger, or maybe just go ahead and spring for the DSM Link.

 

[stirpicult]

For sure get the walbro 255 instead of the 190.

why? what on his list warrants the need of the 255 (which requires an fpr)?


and Shane2GSX, from what i have read the 2g maf will hold up just fine with what you want to do, so i would scratch the gm maf, maft, and safc off that list and put the dsm link on it. the price of all those is around the price of dsm link, and it will do more for you. since that is a future mod, just get it now. and make the gm maf and maft a future mod.
if you decide to stick with the gm maf and all that, you need a logger.

edit:

Walbro 255 *Edit*

the 190 you had listed before the edit was fine. you don't need a 255. if you want more horsepower later, then sure... get it, and rewire it, and get an fpr. neither of which is on your list of mods. but for 300-350, a 190 is fine.

 

[femmeDSM]

Here is a link w/ some info on Wideband O2s. Basically, they give you an actual reading of what the air/fuel ratio is -- way closer than the narrow band Gauge Pod style A/F gauges (they basically don't do anything other than look pretty).
http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=2274&

As for the fuel pump, I personally am running a 190, and have no plans on upgrading to a 255 until I pass the ~275-300hp mark. Obviously, plans could change as my setup warrants it, but I have known plenty of people who have run 190's without problems. An AFPR wouldn't be a bad idea anyway, if you have the extra ~$150.00 or so to spend. I'm thinking of getting one, myself. Here you go: http://www.importevolution.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_45&products_id=1433



As for clutch, on an AWD, I would strongly recommend the 2600. That 2100 will break eventually.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yea, you don't need a 255 LPH pump for an Evo3 16G. But you'll be hard pressed to reach your goal with that turbo and stock cams .

Cams and a 20g (especially a TD06H 20g) will warrent a 255, IMHO. Don't scrimp on fuel if you want to mod more after you realize your current goals.

 

[Shane2GSX]

why? what on his list warrants the need of the 255 (which requires an fpr)?


and Shane2GSX, from what i have read the 2g maf will hold up just fine with what you want to do, so i would scratch the gm maf, maft, and safc off that list and put the dsm link on it. the price of all those is around the price of dsm link, and it will do more for you. since that is a future mod, just get it now. and make the gm maf and maft a future mod.
if you decide to stick with the gm maf and all that, you need a logger.

edit:



the 190 you had listed before the edit was fine. you don't need a 255. if you want more horsepower later, then sure... get it, and rewire it, and get an fpr. neither of which is on your list of mods. but for 300-350, a 190 is fine.

Well, the only reason I wanted a maft and safc was to vent, but I'm kinda reconsidering that now. However, I already have the BOV and safc and vented fine on my auto gst when I had it. Never noticed any performance loss between venting and not. Venting is not my main concern, performance is. If I'm going to cause too much performance loss by venting I won't do it. But like I said I do already have the safc, so could I just buy the DSMLink and would it allow me to tune as well as vent? Or would I still need the SAFC and MAFT. I've read the FAQ's on DSMLink's website and it didnt' say anything about venting so..

 

[Shane2GSX]

Yea, you don't need a 255 LPH pump for an Evo3 16G. But you'll be hard pressed to reach your goal with that turbo and stock cams .

Cams and a 20g (especially a TD06H 20g) will warrent a 255, IMHO. Don't scrimp on fuel if you want to mod more after you realize your current goals.

So you'resaying that turbo is not capable of low to mid 12's with stock cams? Or it would be too risky? Should I just opt for the 20g or a 50 trim? I really want to avoid internals if at all possible. One reason I bought a DSM again was b/c you're supposed to be able to get quick times with just bolt ons..

 

[femmeDSM]

Well, the only reason I wanted a maft and safc was to vent, but I'm kinda reconsidering that now. However, I already have the BOV and safc and vented fine on my auto gst when I had it. Never noticed any performance loss between venting and not. Venting is not my main concern, performance is. If I'm going to cause too much performance loss by venting I won't do it. But like I said I do already have the safc, so could I just buy the DSMLink and would it allow me to tune as well as vent? Or would I still need the SAFC and MAFT. I've read the FAQ's on DSMLink's website and it didnt' say anything about venting so..

I'm not aware of any significant performance loss issues due to venting, per se. However, it is a completely unnecessary mod (in my *personal* opinion) and doesn't do anything to increase performance, either (obviously). To answer your question, no, DSMLink alone will not allow you to vent safely; you will still need the MAF-T for that, but that will be about all you will be using it for at that point, as DSMLink eliminates most other uses for a MAF-T since it allows you to fine-tune your fuel mix.

To re-state the obvious, if you're not getting DSMLink right away, you will DEFINITELY need some sort of logger. Among other things, you can monitor your injector duty cycle -- if you're running high octane (93+) fuel, you may not need those 650's for quite some time.

 

[stirpicult]

Well, the only reason I wanted a maft and safc was to vent, but I'm kinda reconsidering that now. However, I already have the BOV and safc and vented fine on my auto gst when I had it. Never noticed any performance loss between venting and not. Venting is not my main concern, performance is. If I'm going to cause too much performance loss by venting I won't do it. But like I said I do already have the safc, so could I just buy the DSMLink and would it allow me to tune as well as vent? Or would I still need the SAFC and MAFT. I've read the FAQ's on DSMLink's website and it didnt' say anything about venting so..

to vent you will need the gm maf. i don't know if dsm link has a thing for that or not, but the gm maf allows you to read air intake after the bov (so the bov air is not read yet when it releases), where as our stock ones read after the bov, so the air is already taken into account. getting the safc, gm maf, and maft is fine. you will need a logger though so you can see what is going on.
and you might not notice the performance loss by venting the stock setup but i bet the more horsepower you make (or try to make), the more it will show. you are getting rid of air that has already been assumed to be there and been adjusted for by the ecu.

 

[Shane2GSX]

to vent you will need the gm maf. i don't know if dsm link has a thing for that or not, but the gm maf allows you to read air intake after the bov (so the bov air is not read yet when it releases), where as our stock ones read after the bov, so the air is already taken into account. getting the safc, gm maf, and maft is fine. you will need a logger though so you can see what is going on.
and you might not notice the performance loss by venting the stock setup but i bet the more horsepower you make (or try to make), the more it will show. you are getting rid of air that has already been assumed to be there and been adjusted for by the ecu.

thanks to all for the info so far. but if venting is gonna be a drain on performance, then it's prob best not to do it I guess.. oh well.

 

[stirpicult]

thanks to all for the info so far. but if venting is gonna be a drain on performance, then it's prob best not to do it I guess.. oh well.

with the gm maf and the maft it wont be a drain on performance. with the stock maf, it will. just know that the 2g maf will hold up to your planned mods fine.

 

[98GSXboosted]

I tried to vent for 2 days and my car ran so shitty. It would stall after it psshtts if i dont give it gas immediately. Not cool, DONT VENT.

 

[98GSXboosted]

Becareful when replacing clutch, alot of people who put in an aftermarket ACT will get crankwalk right after.

 

[Shane2GSX]

I'm certainly a little farther off with things than I thought I would be. So I would need a logger so I can tune with it correct?

 

[stirpicult]

I'm certainly a little farther off with things than I thought I would be. So I would need a logger so I can tune with it correct?

you get the logger to see what the engine is doing. from there you use the maft and safc to tune. dsm link has a logger in it, so you can log and tune with it.

 

[Shane2GSX]

you get the logger to see what the engine is doing. from there you use the maft and safc to tune. dsm link has a logger in it, so you can log and tune with it.

Gotcha, that's what I thought. Maybe I'll sell the safc, just have the maft and dsm link to vent and log/tune with.

 

[femmeDSM]

I'm certainly a little farther off with things than I thought I would be. So I would need a logger so I can tune with it correct?

Right. As stirpicult said, you will not actually be tuning with the logger itself. Rather, it will give you an "inside view" of what the engine is doing so you will know what your car needs. It's also used to check and clear CELs, and is a great troubleshooting tool. i.e. you can do cool stuff with it like manually turn on your fuel pump (to make sure it's working), manually fire each injector (to make sure they are working), log your runs to check for retarded timing, knock, and many many other features. You'll need a Palm w/ hotsync or a laptop to use this, as well as the OBDII connector (you can sometimes find these on EBay), and the software (free/open source) or you could buy one of the pre-made 'kits' from a place like pocketlogger.com. Here's a link for the 2g/OBDII version that will give you all the awesome features you can play with. (Can you tell I love these things? )

http://pocketlogger.com/index.php?pid=obdii

 

[bird man]

honestly if you were to just go with dsmlink, better pump and better injectors and forget about everything else you have, you will notice a big difference (if tuned the right way) now if you put all the other stuff on also you should be in the 12's easy. just from experience tho.....unless you are going to be building up your motor and getting rid of your balance shaft there is no need to go with the 2600 lb clutch. it slams the crank to hard and will more than likely lead to CW. the 2100 is a good clutch especially if you have the flywheel to go with it.

 

[2gGSX]

I agree with people saying go straight for DSMLink, it's one of the best mods I or anyone else who has it says they have ever done. As for the MAFT, it is not absolutely necessary and in many cases becomes a burden to get baselined correctly so DSMLink will work well. If you do choose to keep the MAFT then there are many writeups on the DSMLink forums telling you how to correctly adjust it.

If you're only going to use it to vent however, that's a very expensive 300-350 dollar mod for something that's not very useful. If you're going to use it because you think you'll overrun the 2g MAS, then you also don't really need it. DSMLink has a built in function to get by this called the fake MAF.

If you aren't comfortable with the 2600's pressure there are alternatives such as Spec, centerforce, south bend, or if you have extra money to spend SBR's 3500. Each have pedal pressures comprable to the ACT 2100 and instead have higher friction coefficient disks to increase the amount of torque it can hold.

A rewired Walbro 190 lph fuel pump at 20 psi boost (63 psi fuel pressure) is enough to support just under 600cc/min of fuel flow, which translates to just over 4 lbs/min of fuel assuming pump gas specific gravity of .76 4 lbs/min of fuel tuned for 11:1 AFR is enough to support 44 lbs/min of airflow, or at 11.5:1 46 lbs/min of airflow. Both of these will take him deep into the 12's and even the high 11's as people have proven lately.

The Evo 3 has been proven to be able to flow mid 40 lbs/min of airflow and be good for 11's, although thats including cams and a great tune. A mid-low 12 second ET can easily be attained with this turbo however, while still retaining its great spool.

 

[Shane2GSX]

I agree with people saying go straight for DSMLink, it's one of the best mods I or anyone else who has it says they have ever done. As for the MAFT, it is not absolutely necessary and in many cases becomes a burden to get baselined correctly so DSMLink will work well. If you do choose to keep the MAFT then there are many writeups on the DSMLink forums telling you how to correctly adjust it.

If you're only going to use it to vent however, that's a very expensive 300-350 dollar mod for something that's not very useful. If you're going to use it because you think you'll overrun the 2g MAS, then you also don't really need it. DSMLink has a built in function to get by this called the fake MAF.

If you aren't comfortable with the 2600's pressure there are alternatives such as Spec, centerforce, south bend, or if you have extra money to spend SBR's 3500. Each have pedal pressures comprable to the ACT 2100 and instead have higher friction coefficient disks to increase the amount of torque it can hold.

A rewired Walbro 190 lph fuel pump at 20 psi boost (63 psi fuel pressure) is enough to support just under 600cc/min of fuel flow, which translates to just over 4 lbs/min of fuel assuming pump gas specific gravity of .76 4 lbs/min of fuel tuned for 11:1 AFR is enough to support 44 lbs/min of airflow, or at 11.5:1 46 lbs/min of airflow. Both of these will take him deep into the 12's and even the high 11's as people have proven lately.

The Evo 3 has been proven to be able to flow mid 40 lbs/min of airflow and be good for 11's, although thats including cams and a great tune. A mid-low 12 second ET can easily be attained with this turbo however, while still retaining its great spool.

Great info! Sounds like I won't need a 20G after all, which is good news. Another question I have for you DSMLink users, does anyone know if it can store different tunes? Say I want my car to have 2 settings, like being able to ride around on 12 lbs of boost for normal driving and having the appropriate mix for that, then being able to switch to 20 lbs whenever I feel the need and having the right mix for that? Or am I making things too complicated?