EVO3 16g, 650cc, IDC 92%

[hollandeclipse]

Here are my log results from yesterday:

My mods: 650cc, 2g maf, afpr, fmic, evo3 16g, walbro 255, SQV blowoff, turboback 3" no cat., 98oct pumpgas.

AFC settings: Lo 1000rpm: -8, 2000 rpm -2, 3000 rpm and further 0
Hi 1000 / 8000 rpm: +6

Yesterday I did a WOT 3rd pull outside temp was 39F. Boost set to 18 psi.

RPM O2 TIMA knock IDC TPS
3843 0,91V 19 6 46% 56,2
4593 0,91V 16 5 71% 99,6
5312 0,89V 19 3 83,5% 99,6
5500 0,89V 20 4 86,7% 99,6
6000 0,89V 24 3 89% 99,6
6375 0,89V 23 1 92,1% 99,6

Any advise? seems that my 650cc's are having trouble keeping up with the airflow. Or is anything else wrong with fuelsupply. This also explains why I can't richen it up further cause I will pass the max IDC. Theoretically my set up should be way too rich

 

[spyderturbo007]

Yeah, mathematically, you're way too rich. Where did you start the tune on the high throttle map? You're probably running into rich knock at those correction factors. Provided the car is running properly, i.e. no boost leaks, good plugs, wires, etc, you should be around -13% on the high throttle map.

I would make a 3rd gear pull with the high throttle map set at -10% all the way across the board. You can also dump TPS from the log, since you've verified it's reading properly. Also, you need to address the data transfer rate from your logger, since you don't have enough samples /second. What program are you using?

 

[hollandeclipse]

I started to tune with -5% at the hi. Then I had 25 knocks. By adding more fuel the knock went away. My fueltrims are low: 94, mid: 111, hi: 125.

I use mmcd to log.

I am afraid there is something wrong with the fuelsupply. Can I try to raise the fuelpressure to 50 psi (w/o vac) and then make another run? Or do I have a wrong maf?
I use a 2g maf from a 3.5 v6 non-turbo.

 

[tristanmb81]

yes there is something wrong definitely.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I'm not familiar with MMCD, but you need to find a way to change the data transfer rate between the logger and the ECU. You just aren't getting enough data points to make an accurate assessment of the log.

Anyway, I'm confused by your "2g MAS from a 3.5L V6 NT". There is no such thing as a 2g 3.5L V6. Are you sure you aren't talking about a 3g V6?

Leave the fuel pressure at stock levels.

 

[Gamble97]

That would be a 3g maf. And it flows like 30% more than the 2g maf which is about 50% more than a 1g maf. I dont know if you can compensate that much on a safc.

 

[JayRolla]

Actually the evo maf will lean you out a lot. If you add 650's or larger you should beable to control them. My buddy is running an evo maf and 1150's with just an safc and e85.

 

[delta448]

I thought the 3G's had a version of the 3.0L 6G72? Maybe this is something unique to the european market? I've never seen a 3.5L.

Gamble97, do you mean that the 3G MAF reads 30% higher or lower at the same airflow? Taking into consideration the almost nill injector compensation he is using, wouldn't that induce fuel cut way before the stock point if it reads higher? To make use of a higher reading MAF, wouldn't you want to use much larger injectors? But that would cause major idle issues due to deadtime differences wouldn't it? I'm not intimately familiar with the SAFC controls, but I don't think there is a global deadtime correction... -is there?

 

[CanadianTSi]

Check to make sure Fuel Pressure is rising 1:1 with boost.

 

[JayRolla]

Like stated make sure your FPR is rising with boost. Also make sure base fuel pressure is at 38psi.

Do you have any creep? With a stock ported 16g and a 3" exhuast you could be creeping way above 18psi at high rpms. Which would cause knock and you would add fuel. But even with a real rich afr you could still see knock and add fuel causing you to run out of injector from a real rich condition. Remember too the 16g is real knock crazy and on pump gas you may want to pull some timing out with the CAS. You are seeing some real high timing which could be the reason you see knock and had to add so much fuel.

 

[Gamble97]

Like stated make sure your FPR is rising with boost. Also make sure base fuel pressure is at 38psi.

Why not raise the fuel pressure so it will reduce the IDC's?

And for what it's worth, I think the evo maf is the same as the 3g eclipse maf. I think.
Also do a boost leak test.

Also to the OP, you do know that running the injectors over 90% increases the chances of them going static (staying open)

 

[hollandeclipse]

Thanks guys for your suggestions really appreciate this because here in Europe we don't have that much knowledge of the eclipse gsx. the MAF came of an Mitsubishi Pajero, (looks al lot like your endeavor) with a 6g74 engine modelyear 1997. I can have a partnr tomorrow however I still more and more get the feeling that I need to check my fuelpressure at boost. This is my theory:

The maf sends a signal to the ECU that the injectors must be opened at 92% at 6300 rpm. So when (new) 650 cc's are 92 % opened with a good fuelpressure this will be much more fuel then the airflow of an evo 3 16g with 18 psi can deliver. That's why I am thinking that:

1. AFPR is not working as at should be
2. Fuelfilter is clogged
3. Fuelpump does not deliver enough because of low voltage
4. Something else in the fuel delivery perhaps a o-ring or wrong mounting of the Walbro.

I had comparable lean issues when I had my 1g maf with 510 cc evo 3 injectors.

I have recieved my fuelpump rewiringkit today so I will mount this next monday. Then I will also replace the fuelfilter and let you know how I went.

I found a thread with almost the exact same issues I am facing. This is also a canadian spec GSX, can this perhaps be an issue?

Here is the thread:

 

[hollandeclipse]

Sorry the thread did not work here it is:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/291360-650cc-injectors-120-duty-cycle-wot-2.html

 

[JayRolla]

All that may be true but without a wbo2 your just playing a guessing game.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Thanks guys for your suggestions really appreciate this because here in Europe we don't have that much knowledge of the eclipse gsx. the MAF came of an Mitsubishi Pajero, (looks al lot like your endeavor) with a 6g74 engine modelyear 1997.

I know nothing about that MAS. We can only guess it's flow characteristics compared to the stock 1g or stock 2g MAS. Is there anyway you can get ahold of a 2g MAS? That would make things much easier. For all we know, you could be fighting a loosing battle based on the flow differences between that MAS and the ones normally used on our cars.

 

[LandoAWD]

Thanks guys for your suggestions really appreciate this because here in Europe we don't have that much knowledge of the eclipse gsx. the MAF came of an Mitsubishi Pajero, (looks al lot like your endeavor) with a 6g74 engine modelyear 1997. I can have a partnr tomorrow however I still more and more get the feeling that I need to check my fuelpressure at boost. This is my theory:

The maf sends a signal to the ECU that the injectors must be opened at 92% at 6300 rpm. So when (new) 650 cc's are 92 % opened with a good fuelpressure this will be much more fuel then the airflow of an evo 3 16g with 18 psi can deliver. That's why I am thinking that:

1. AFPR is not working as at should be
2. Fuelfilter is clogged
3. Fuelpump does not deliver enough because of low voltage
4. Something else in the fuel delivery perhaps a o-ring or wrong mounting of the Walbro.

I had comparable lean issues when I had my 1g maf with 510 cc evo 3 injectors.

I have recieved my fuelpump rewiringkit today so I will mount this next monday. Then I will also replace the fuelfilter and let you know how I went.

I found a thread with almost the exact same issues I am facing. This is also a canadian spec GSX, can this perhaps be an issue?

Here is the thread:

The red sentence leads me to believe it isn't the MAF, but we can't say for sure. Please consider purchasing a wideband. Tuning around knock can work, but more info doesn't hurt.