2G Evo 8 starter in a 2g possible?

[AZmocoLoco]

Wondering if anyone has tried this before? Trying to get an evo 8 starter to work on a 2g awd. Suppose if it hasn't been done, we will give it a shot at az speed center. If it doesn't work on an awd, we will try a fwd, possibly with 1g's as well. Unless someone has tried it already and it didn't work! Thanks!

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I was wondering this aswell, the autos will struggle as the only option would be the 7 GTA but I was looking into the alternator's aswell but never got as far as buying anything, keep us posted

 

[ThunderChild]

I have to ask...why?

Is this just a parts-compatibility test, or some other gain? I'm unaware if the evo8 starter is a higher gear reduction, or any other gain aside from a newer/alternate part option.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I briefly looked at doing this myself. the drive gear is different pitch. and the mount offset is also wrong. its a project on my back burner. i think it can be accomplished with some work.

I adapted a toyota starter to a vw bug many years ago. well worth the effort. engine spun over way faster.

 

[black91awdturbo]

I have to ask...why?

Is this just a parts-compatibility test, or some other gain? I'm unaware if the evo8 starter is a higher gear reduction, or any other gain aside from a newer/alternate part option.

Exactly my thoughts! What would you gain from doing this swap?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

It's not the point of it, every starter or alternator is built differently and some are better then others so if the EVOS had a revamp maybe the alternator or starter is better built, stronger or turns better. I spoke to company recently and he explained some OEM units can be better with new models but we did not get into that so much as I wanted to ask bout custom units. So it may be a nicer option if it can be retrofitted to work

 

[gofer]

Without knowing the internal specs of each starter like their gear ratios, just comparing their listed power output specs, I don't see why anyone would entertain this as the OE Evo starter has less power output (torque) at 1.2kW and the OE 2g starter is 1.4kW. Besides that, an OE DSM starter is 1/5th the cost of a new Evo unit.



Any reason why you guys are interested in doing this swap?

 

[black91awdturbo]

It's not the pointing it, every starter or alternator is built differently and some are better then others so if the EVOS had a revamp maybe the alternator or starter is better built, stronger or turns better. I spoke to company recently and he explained some OEM units can be better with new models but we did not get into that so much as I wanted to ask bout custom units. So it may be a nicer option if it can be retrofitted to work

I guess that does make sense the 1G starter design was 10-14 years old than the design on the First Evolutions that came to the US.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Without knowing the internal specs of each starter like their gear ratios, just comparing their listed power output specs, I don't see why anyone would entertain this as the OE Evo starter has less power output (torque) at 1.2kW and the OE 2g starter is 1.4kW. Besides that, an OE DSM starter is 1/5th the cost of a new Evo unit.



Any reason why you guys are interested in doing this swap?

It's lower most likely because of newer age parts inside, we have a 1.4kw because back then most were made higher mainly for high compression, the EVOS unit is smaller in kw but it must be better inside since it's higher compression then ours is, new age parts are smaller lighter and better then older parts, it may or may not be similer to these parts but if all they did was swap the block around then why redesign the starter if it was perfectly fine how it was? I'm not saying it's a great idea to do this but the logic is there. Remember the Kia's and Hyundai's had the Evo blocks and similer gearbox housings so it could be cost effective if the parts the same,

 

[gofer]

I'm not saying you're wrong Bobby but while the CR of a Evo is 8.8:1 and a 2g DSM is 8.5:1, the 2g still creates more cylinder pressure than the Evo while cranking (doing a compression test).

Evo standard compression 8.8:1 - 163psi
2g standard compression 8.5:1 - 178 psi
​

This would make since as to why the Evo starter has lesser torque output, because there's less cylinder pressure to overcome. Maybe the Evo VIII/IX owners should be trying to upgrade their starter to DSM if it clears their turbo?

​

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I'm not saying you're wrong Bobby but while the CR of a Evo is 8.8:1 and a 2g DSM is 8.5:1, the 2g still creates more cylinder pressure than the Evo while cranking (doing a compression test).

Evo standard compression 8.8:1 - 163psi
2g standard compression 8.5:1 - 178 psi
​

This would make since as to why the Evo starter has lesser torque output, because there's less cylinder pressure to overcome. Maybe the Evo VIII/IX owners should be trying to upgrade their starter to DSM if it clears their turbo?

​

Don't forget the Evo 3 that had 9:0:1 compression but still the same output stated! It never altered n that,

Numbers don't mean anything unless we know exactly what the starter is made of and how it's lower is placed, as I said before smaller things can power old items alot better if not 2-3 fold nowadays,

 

[gofer]

What I'm trying to say (see my previous post) is the actual piston CR doesn't matter, its the amount of pressure (psi) that's created in the cylinder during startup/cranking.

A 2g with 8.5:1 CR pistons creates 178psi of cylinder pressure. Starter is 1.4kW.
A Evo VIII/IX with 8.8:1 CR pistons creates 163psi of cylinder pressure. Starter is 1.2kW.
​

That's interesting that the Evo III uses a 1.2kW starter though, I'd be interested to see what the standard cylinder pressure is (per the FSM) on an Evo III with a 9:1 CR piston.


If it weren't for DSMer's thinking outside of the box and trying to improve this platform then we wouldn't get anywhere, so I can definitely appreciate what you guys are trying to do. Just trying to understand the thought/theory behind the potential amount of work trying to make an Evo starter work on our cars.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

What I'm trying to say (see my previous post) is the actual piston CR doesn't matter, its the amount of pressure (psi) that's created in the cylinder during startup/cranking.

A 2g with 8.5:1 CR pistons creates 178psi of cylinder pressure. Starter is 1.4kW.
A Evo VIII/IX with 8.8:1 CR pistons creates 163psi of cylinder pressure. Starter is 1.2kW.
​

That's interesting that the Evo III uses a 1.2kW starter though, I'd be interested to see what the standard cylinder pressure is (per the FSM) on an Evo III with a 9:1 CR piston.


If it weren't for DSMer's thinking outside of the box and trying to improve this platform then we wouldn't get anywhere, so I can definitely appreciate what you guys are trying to do. Just trying to understand the thought/theory behind the potential amount of work trying to make an Evo starter work on our cars.

I can only think of better components and maybe a lighter more compact unit possibly. I've not personally looked into it for the starter. I'm in this thread for Int and the results of this aswell, I'm just adding what I know on the subject and the progress of parts . Not much help after that haha

 

[2gmitsueclipse]

There is a significant size/weight difference between the DSM and EVO starter:

Here are some shots of a DSM starter and the starter from my EVO IX:

DSM: Bottom EVO IX: Top

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DSM: Left EVO IX: Right

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DSM:

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EVO IX:

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The biggest challenge I see is the difference in the housing that protrudes into the bell housing. The DSM bendix also seems to extend further than the EVO bendix. I suppose they would have to be mocked up to measure the distance to the flywheel teeth.

 

[AZmocoLoco]

thanks for the support and feedback!

 

[94awdcoupe]

thanks for posting those pictures. as I was attracted to the weight savings. nothing more. I will spend 8 hours on my car to save a 1lb. but most will not understand why.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

thanks for posting those pictures. as I was attracted to the weight savings. nothing more. I will spend 8 hours on my car to save a 1lb. but most will not understand why.

I needed and buddy, I'm doing the same myself , within cost reasons haha, every LB helps