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1G Engine “failure” diagnosis

Posted by SasaniFab, Aug 9, 2020

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  1. SasaniFab

    SasaniFab Freelancer

    2,443
    735
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    So I got a message on Facebook from a guy who purchased a built motor for me awhile back. The engine had the best of the best. New oem head, new oem 6 bolt crank , all new oem timing components including the oil pump with straight cut gears. He took the car out for a spin and oil started leaking out of the oil pump gear seal. He pulled the motor and noticed the oil pump gear was hard to turn. I assembled the shortblock , oringed the block and installed the head. I didn’t install the timing belt or cams. This is what he found when pulling the front cover. Everything else is in perfect order? The motor has less and 600 miles on it.

    He believes he overtightened the timing belt and side loaded the gears.... The scuff marks look pronounced on once side , almost like it was spinning Off center

    To clarify , the motor has 3k
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2020

    Street Build 4K  20

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    645 whp · 498 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  2. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    6,702
    2,932
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Thats some bad scoring. I haven't seen that particular problem before. Did the oil filter catch the debis???
     

    Street Build 5K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    838  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  14  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  3. 19Eclipse90

    19Eclipse90 DSM Wiseman

    4,840
    627
    Joined Sep 29, 2003
    OKC, Oklahoma
    Rear shaft installed or were the shafts eliminated (using stubby shaft)?
     
  4. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

    3,724
    1,090
    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Looks to meet like it was eating in the direction the timing belt would pull if overtensioned. I feel like it would have to be extremely overtensioned to cause that damage in that time frame.

    Does look like a stub shaft to me.
     

    Street Build 919  3

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

    853  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    2K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

    Street Build 3K  10

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    Vegas Smith likes this.
  5. SasaniFab

    SasaniFab Freelancer

    2,443
    735
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    The engine had a oem stubby shaft ... He believes that he overtightened the timing belt significantly. Can’t believe how much scoring. The motor is heathy otherwise.... thankfully
     

    Street Build 4K  20

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    645 whp · 498 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  6. 19Eclipse90

    19Eclipse90 DSM Wiseman

    4,840
    627
    Joined Sep 29, 2003
    OKC, Oklahoma
    @SasaniFab thanks for confirming. What about the oil pump? OEM or aftermarket?

    Overtightening makes sense, at least. I mentioned something about similar wear patterns in a thread over two years ago, trying to help explain why overtightening would cause this wear pattern: Helical gears and OEM stubby shaft.
     
  7. SasaniFab

    SasaniFab Freelancer

    2,443
    735
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    Oem oil pump from extreme psi with new straight cut gears.... first time I’ve ever had an issue with an oil pump like this. Makes me want to grab a frontline cover. The fact that steel gears are sitting in a aluminum housing suspended in oil terrifies me
     

    Street Build 4K  20

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    645 whp · 498 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    Dericsh and 19Eclipse90 like this.
  8. 19Eclipse90

    19Eclipse90 DSM Wiseman

    4,840
    627
    Joined Sep 29, 2003
    OKC, Oklahoma
    I appreciate the extra info! Hopefully he's back up in running in no time!
     
  9. SasaniFab

    SasaniFab Freelancer

    2,443
    735
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    For the record , this motor was built to run in a Subaru Legacy. The owner made his own adaptor plate and custom wiring harness
     

    Street Build 4K  20

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    645 whp · 498 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    TK's9d2TSi likes this.
  10. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

    5,277
    1,100
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Got starved of oil.
     

    Showcar Build 6K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon N/T
    9.805 @ 144.00 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  11. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    3,027
    1,067
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    That or it ate something.
     

    Drag Race Build 4K  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  12. TK's9d2TSi

    TK's9d2TSi Supporting Member

    3,828
    1,420
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Stock pick up and oil pan? I'm guessing stock pick up would be an issue on hard acceleration since it's far up front.
     

    466  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    512  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 3K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.2 @ 120 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  13. SasaniFab

    SasaniFab Freelancer

    2,443
    735
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    Yah, I think he needs a moroso pan or to modify the pickup
     

    Street Build 4K  20

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    645 whp · 498 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    6,702
    2,932
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Motor sounded spot on in the video. With our pickups where they are, any RWD application should probably think about that and try to move it rearward, if thats what a Moroso pan does. Did he ever mention oil pressure to you because the video sounded like a healthy motor BEFORE he went for a spirited drive perhaps????? :idontknow:
    I say you did your job fine and starvation was the culprit as has already been pointed out. If you are even in the pallpark, the tension on the belt shouldn't have hurt it IMO. Especially with straight cut gears. Just my thoughts.
     

    Street Build 5K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    1K  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    838  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  14  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  15. buddahboost

    buddahboost Proven Member

    544
    62
    Joined Aug 15, 2007
    CHICAGO HEIGHTS, Illinois
    Any more info on the build? I met a guy who's doing a 4G63 in a STi.. he's getting a bell housing adapter from Europe so he'll be using Sti drive train... sorry to derail the thread :)
     

    Street Build 189  1

    1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    awd · automatic · Galant VR-4
    Loading...
  16. CT DSM 06114

    CT DSM 06114 Proven Member

    37
    0
    Joined May 26, 2004
    Hartford, Connecticut
    The only time I have seen that failure is when you run a Kevlar belt and rev past 7500.

    change to OEM or regular after market and no more failures.

    I have seen at least 3 of these.
     

    Street Build 337  6

    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    199 whp · 157 lb/ft · 2G DSM

    561  7

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.768 @ 101.000 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. SasaniFab

    SasaniFab Freelancer

    2,443
    735
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    Car is an 06 legacy, bmw 6 speed transmission. The adaptor plate was a modified evo adaptor plate made by pmc motorsport out of Poland. Custom flywheel adaptor. The car has two ECUs , one to run the car electronics and ecm link to run the engine. The engine I built .... 2l 6 bolt with wiseco hds, turbo tuff rods. I oringed the block with stainless steel wire and I used a oem mls
     

    Street Build 4K  20

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    645 whp · 498 lb/ft · 1G DSM
    Loading...

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