bearing failure :(

[donnie2783]

Well I had my car running and 3 months after my cylinder head started clattering. I took the head off to find out why half the head was being supplied with oil. Well I found the problem. I cleaned out all the oil passages and had a whole lot of metal shavings . So I dropped the oil pan and had a few small pieces.I then dropped all the rod caps and sure enough the number 2 rod bearing was missing the center of it. then dropped the main caps and the center bearing was also missing the center.It looks like it just peeled apart.You can still see where it was put together it is scratched around the sides but where its missing the center does not show any signs of scraping. I even peeled a small piece up with my fingernail . I took out the crank and brought it back to big 2 engine rebuilders in gulfport ms and talked to them about it and they tried telling me it was sand. Everyone I know can say where this engine was built and it was on my dresser haha. From oil pan to throttle body. They said that when I received the crank it had a no warranty tag when it didn't ha. I am going to add a picture of the bearing in a second. its the best i can do with my junky cell phone.Oh and it never nocked 1 hair.

1112112035.jpg picture by donnie2483 - Photobucket If the pic don't work I will repost it. please excuse my mess ups in proper gramer.

Oh sorry I forgot to ad that its on a 1991 eagle talon 6bolt engine. turbocharged and all wheel drive. I only got 3 months use out of it ,but I did drive close to 3k miles.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well it could have gotten there before the car was yours, sand blasting parts can damage the engine if it wasnt cleaned up.

 

[donnie2783]

Well I had the block bored from .020 to .040 due to a water scar. new pistons. the block was also degreased and cleaned. I have 500 dollars just in bottom end machine shop work.When I got this car it didnt even have a drive train or anything. I pratically rebuilt the whole car using a rusted out parts car with a good runing gear. When I put it together I also used lucas engine preassembly lube. So I didn't start it dry..My car has been sitting for almost 2 months now and I miss it ha. For almost stock it was an extremely fun car to drive.

 

[bryanwheat]

What did you use to check the clearances? Did you use a new oil pump? Did you clean the oil cooler out before installing it?

 

[donnie2783]

I took the oil pump apart and it was still like new so i cleaned it up and reused it. I put an aftermarket oil cooler on it and I had to make the hole a little bigger in the oil filter housing but it got completely cleaned out also.I didn't wanna reuse the factory oil cooler for just incase reasons.I can't remember the name of the stuff I used to check clearance ,but you put down a line of it then torque it down then take it back off and use the scale on a piece of paper it comes with and it tells you the clearance. I cant think of the name of it off hand.

I just remembered what its called what I used is plasti-gage.

 

[jimbob_843]

Well...doubt it was manufacture defect the way both rod and mains went. Did you clean the head and crank journals before installing? You say you bought a crank? I read a thread recently about NEW crankshafts still needing to be clean before install due to debri in the journals.

 

[donnie2783]

I didnt buy it. I had it turned from big 2 engine builders. all of the other bearings were fine except for 1 main and 1 rod.I bet if I would have bought one I think i would have been better off ha.

 

[BogusSVO]

yep trash in the oil.

Did you clean the crank?

All cranks need to be cleaned before install.

The reman crank you bought, was not cleaned before you installed it.
I dose not matter you bought it from a machine shop.
The crank was ground, that makes grit, both metal from the crank, and stone from the crank grinding process.

After the crank was ground, it was polished, more metal flake and abrasive from the polishing belt.

Then it was oiled and placed in the bag.

Guess where all the metal flake and stone grit and abrasive belt trash ended up? In the oil galley holes of the crank.

So when the engine was primed, then started all that trash got pushed into the rod bearings.

This why the main got taken out, trash in the oil galley in the block after the oil pump filter.
The oil galley plugs were not removed and cleaned before the rebuild.

 

[donnie2783]

I cleaned it all before I put it all together .After I got it back from getting it turned and the block bored and degreased it sat on my dresser until I got all the gaskets. Then took it out the bags and made sure it was all cleaned and well lubed with lucas preassembly oil before putting it together. This isn't the first engine I have built. I have built several chevy 2.2's,350's.fords and on and on and I never once had seen a bearing do this or had this happen. Even a friend who has been a mechanic all his life seen a bearing like that .

 

[BogusSVO]

Walk me thu how you cleaned the crank....., if you look at a 4g crank, on the outside you will see balls that are press fit in the oil galleys, if extra care is not given to clean around these they will hold the grit.

GM 2.2 350 and ford 302 do not have these plugs, there fore make them a simpler crank to clean.

I have seen tons of engines fail this way shortly after a rebuild.

 

[JacksonAuto]

+1 on the contamination. The trash came from somewhere. The oil pump/front cover, lines, cooler and oil filter housing can trap debris and there is no way to throughly clean them out. If they weren't replaced then they were the culprit. How did you clean out the block and head?

 

[donnie2783]

well I only used the fittings off of the oem oil cooler lines ,and installed a new oil cooler and new hose.My crank don't have any plugs on it ,but I know it has the metal balls pressed in. Not that I can remember anyways. I cleaned the crank with a small bottle style brush, and some engine degreaser.The block i cleaned with engine degreaser and an air blow gun.The head I took all the allen plugs out sprayed good with engine degreaser and then carb cleaner in every oiling hole then blew it all out (it was clean). The oil pump was taken all apart and cleaned ,and I put in lucas preassembly lube so the pump wasn't dry.I had to increase the hole to drop the oil pressure some since it has no balance shafts.But I took it apart when i done so ,and then cleaned all the shavings out.

Oh and I still don't understand how the bearing could peel apart . I know what debris can do but never seen this.

 

[BogusSVO]

The metal balls are the plug

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well it looks like your gonna have to use some new parts this time around if you rebuild and make sure everything is cleaned.

 

[donnie2783]

Yea everything will be replaced this time around. Well then if the metals balls are the plugs then how do I remove them to clean behind them?

 

[BogusSVO]

You can use a long thin drift and knock them out then tap and install a screw in plug

Or

Leave the ball plug in and really work at it with brake clean and compressed air and a thin scratch awl

 

[donnie2783]

Well if I were to tap and bolt it.. Wouldn't that mess up the balance? I think im just going to leave them in .

 

[BogusSVO]

I doubt what you will remove with knocking out the ball and tapping will be .2g of diffrence of what the ball weighs once the plug is installed.

 

[donnie2783]

Well I emailed clevite a picture of the bearing ,and was told it was too small and they sent me a link to a bearing failure website. I told them none of them matched mine and asked for and address to send it off to them to see what they say. If that say defect then that will make more sense to me. I asked them because they are the manufacturer ,and they would be able to give me more info on it. Was anyone on here able to see the picture ok with the link I posted?

 

[BogusSVO]

Its fuzzy, but I saw it well enough.

Post the link that they gave you for the bearing failures.

 

[donnie2783]

MAHLE Clevite - Bearing Analysis - BETA v3

 

[brokedowntalon7]

If one was to have forgotten to clean the crank is there any procedure to try and wash some of the shavings out? Or just oil change like crazy?

I don't mean to thread jack but Im sure I cleaned my crank after having it polished from the machine shop, but now paranoia is setting in. I just started the car and it has had some idle time, then an oil change, then some drive time. If i change the oil more more frequently do you think that would improve the outcome? or has damage been done?

 

[BogusSVO]

BrokedownTalon, the damage is done, the grit will embed in the bearing. then go on from there, some grit may flow out from the rod bearing and crank throw, but I doubt all.

If you get rod knock, then you will know.

 

[brokedowntalon7]

OK thanks for the response. I was just being paranoid, I remember cleaning it and spraying brake cleaner in the oil holes. I just hope it was good enough.

 

[donniekak]

If you get a white coffee filter and hold it under the oil galleys of the crank while blowing break cleaner through them, it takes forever to get it to stop showing grit in the filter without pulling the plugs.

This is on a turned, or polished crank.