Ebay Turbo WGA Question

[skyrone]

ok for anybody who wants to jump down my throat i did in fact search for a good amount of time and i could not get the wording right on this. I need to figure out a way to get my waste gate actuator to travel more. It is already adjustable but i need it to go farther and still be able to fully close. I don;t neccesarily need an answer if u wanna just bombard me with links and tell me how dumb i am. thanks

 

[skyrone]

We can't forget that you're looking to mod the knockoff version of the Mitsu actuator....the same unit that I blew the diaphragm apart in when I tested it with 25psi.

I don't think your suggestion is possible because you're talking about two completely different springs in two completely different canisters.

At this point, you may want to start looking into a stronger actuator; perhaps modding an 18psi Evo actuator to fit:
Forced Performance: FP EVO 18PSI HP Wastegate Actuator

It appears that the Evo actuator has a much longer chamber, which would signify a longer throw....it also would have more spring tension; meaning more resistance to flapper blow-open- and it absolutely would NOT move until it saw 18psi.

thats some great info and the link is almost exactly what im looking for. 2 problems I dont have a hundred bux and i dont think i could safely swing 18 lbs without a fuel pump for right now. bummer

 

[JusMX141]

Well, just install the turbo the way it is until you get the money for the mods! If you port the wastegate hole, there's no reason you'll be creeping.

This is how the knockoff EvoIII's come stock:

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This is how you'll want it to look before installation:

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[kenamond]

You can port the WG hole and still creep. Or you can port the WG hole and not hold boost without leaking. Or it could stop creep and not leak. If you don't mind dropping the hotside more than once, you can try a bit of porting (WG hole), reinstall, see if it creeps and holds backpressure, and drop it again if it still has problems (can't easily fix the leaking flapper though once you've ported out the WG hole).

 

[skyrone]

Well, just install the turbo the way it is until you get the money for the mods! If you port the wastegate hole, there's no reason you'll be creeping.

This is how the knockoff EvoIII's come stock:

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This is how you'll want it to look before installation:

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yeah i ported it all right and idk if that is your picture or not but if the waste gate is anything like mine then the actuator arm is un hooked. Mine will go even farther back then that since i ported behind the flapper but the waste gate just doesnt have the travel. i think i may take the bracket from my current waste gate and put it on the t25 wastegate with some help from the welding class at school. i might possibly see if i can put the adjustable arm from my current waste gate arm onto the t25 waste gate. Any objections??

 

[skyrone]

in fact i dont think that is an ebay turbo at all. my waste gate flapper didnt go anywhere near that far back before porting.

 

[JusMX141]

idk if that is your picture or not but if the waste gate is anything like mine then the actuator arm is un hooked.

Yes, those are my pics.....and yes, it was an eBay 16G. The pics were taken with the exhaust housing off the turbo- hence the large amount of flapper travel because of no wastegate actuator being attached. Once the actuator is attached, it has far less travel....just as you're suggesting.

I think what you're missing is that the travel of the arm isn't the reason some turbos will creep and some won't.....it depends on other mods such as exhaust, as well as boost level. Obviously if Mitsubishi felt their actuators were insufficient they would redesign them or make them adjustable, right?

Generally the only reason a larger flapper is necessary is because of more airflow from using an internally-gated turbo that is much larger than stock. Did you ever look at the size of the internal wastegate hole on a stock HX40 from a Cummins? The turbine housing is 16cm2 (more than DOUBLE the size of the ones on our cars) , yet the wastegate hole is barely big enough to put your pinky into....and we're talking about an enormous turbo that has the ability to push 35+ psi on a diesel application.

By adding more travel to the arm as you wish to do, you're giving up the tension that is needed to hold the flapper shut at higher boost levels. So for a higher boost level you'll want to run a tighter adjustment which will actually result in less flapper travel; but that is FINE because at higher boost when the flapper opens the exhaust will have a much greater tendency to exit through the wastegate anyway (even if the flapper opens less) because it'll be taking the path of least resistance....understand?

Now if you have an internally-gated turbo that has a 750cfm compressor, you may have issues with boost creep running a small wastegate flapper at a high boost level purely because of the increased volume of air. A larger wastegate hole and flapper will divert a large amount of airflow much quicker, even if the flapper only opens 1cm.

Small turbos at low boost levels may need a long actuator throw because of the necessity to get the boost to go past the turbine housing; but as your boost level increases, you WILL need more tension instead of arm travel.

 

[skyrone]

yeah i see what your saying but if the flapper were closer to 90 degrees with the hole it would be less likely to creep. I have an external dump so it shouldn't have anything to do with my exhaust. But im currently making a home depot mbc but in the process of making it look pretty i ground through it so i need to get it braze welded at school. Maybe at 15 lbs it wont creep. i will just have to see. One of my friends suggested rigging up the factory boost controller again because my ecu is not reading the boost.

 

[JusMX141]

Well if you have an external dump, trust me....you're wasting your time trying other actuators. Just port the wastegate hole and set the adjustment on the rod so that there is enough tension to get you to the boost level you desire without opening the flapper too early.

If you try using a T25 actuator and it doesn't have enough strength to hold the flapper shut, you'll be driving around at mid-throttle with the wastegate partially open and it'll sound like you have a massive exhaust leak under your hood.

 

[skyrone]

i might have that problem already. idk i thought i heard a leak today at idle but who knows. I friggin hate my car

 

[kenamond]

Yes, those are my pics.....and yes, it was an eBay 16G. The pics were taken with the exhaust housing off the turbo- hence the large amount of flapper travel because of no wastegate actuator being attached. Once the actuator is attached, it has far less travel....just as you're suggesting.

I think what you're missing is that the travel of the arm isn't the reason some turbos will creep and some won't.....it depends on other mods such as exhaust, as well as boost level. Obviously if Mitsubishi felt their actuators were insufficient they would redesign them or make them adjustable, right?

Generally the only reason a larger flapper is necessary is because of more airflow from using an internally-gated turbo that is much larger than stock. Did you ever look at the size of the internal wastegate hole on a stock HX40 from a Cummins? The turbine housing is 16cm2 (more than DOUBLE the size of the ones on our cars) , yet the wastegate hole is barely big enough to put your pinky into....and we're talking about an enormous turbo that has the ability to push 35+ psi on a diesel application.

By adding more travel to the arm as you wish to do, you're giving up the tension that is needed to hold the flapper shut at higher boost levels. So for a higher boost level you'll want to run a tighter adjustment which will actually result in less flapper travel; but that is FINE because at higher boost when the flapper opens the exhaust will have a much greater tendency to exit through the wastegate anyway (even if the flapper opens less) because it'll be taking the path of least resistance....understand?

Now if you have an internally-gated turbo that has a 750cfm compressor, you may have issues with boost creep running a small wastegate flapper at a high boost level purely because of the increased volume of air. A larger wastegate hole and flapper will divert a large amount of airflow much quicker, even if the flapper only opens 1cm.

Small turbos at low boost levels may need a long actuator throw because of the necessity to get the boost to go past the turbine housing; but as your boost level increases, you WILL need more tension instead of arm travel.

Although I agree with most of this, I wanted to point out that:
a) The evo3 big16g is for an evo, and Mitsubishi designed the WGA for that application.
b) you can get longer throw without compromising on tension if you go with a longer spring (and "deeper" WGA). The Peepers mod is all about that. And,
c) Increasing the throw on that WGA while maintaining adequate tension for the WG hole size and backpressure at the target boost level will help with creep and may cure it. Mr Peepers' post on modding the evo3 WGA demonstrates how little the WGA opens the flapper. If you were exhaust gas trying to "take the easier way out", that big disk in your way is going to matter. I agree that exhaust size matters, as a smaller exhaust or cat adds a restriction that "backs up" everything and makes the WG a more attractive option, so to speak, for the exhaust.

 

[skyrone]

Well I have a 3 in turbo back catless so I don't think thatd do it. I wonder if i had just a regular o2 housing if thatd cure it ### then the exhaust would seem less restrictive.

 

[kenamond]

Well I have a 3 in turbo back catless so I don't think thatd do it. I wonder if i had just a regular o2 housing if thatd cure it ### then the exhaust would seem less restrictive.

Have you tested to see what happens when you disconnect the WGA arm from the lever and do a pull? If you don't creep, then the Peepers mod might do the trick. If not, the Peepers mod will not do the trick and you need to do something else.

 

[skyrone]

Have you tested to see what happens when you disconnect the WGA arm from the lever and do a pull? If you don't creep, then the Peepers mod might do the trick. If not, the Peepers mod will not do the trick and you need to do something else.

what do you mean by a pull