E85 or 100 Oct. + Meth??

[Sik95TSI]

So right now my car is tune on Race Gas 100 Oct. and Meth Injection 50/50 Mix the price of race gas is starting to catch up to me I'm kinda of tired of paying $7.99 A gallon I've heard great things about E85 and I'm willing to convert and buy the nessenecessary parts. E85 is $2.32 a gallon way better then race fuel price! But my ? is will I gain better from E85 or will I lose power? I've heard that E85 doesn't have the same octane rating of 100+Meth. But I've heard E85 is better when it comes to knock? Any input would be great thanks guys!

 

[____Kurt____]

E85 is an incredible fuel for the price and lots of power can be ran on it but IMO the main problem with it is it loses ethanol in its holding tanks. Getting real "E-85" sounds like it is getting hard. My friend just bought 55gal of e-85 at the closest gas station and I asked him to test it with my new tester out of curiosity and he became pretty disappointing, the gas he just purchased tested 70% ethanol. The gas station is also locally known to carry the best stuff.

 

[1gAWDlaser]

+1 for e85 minimum octane rating here is 110!

 

[mikesx4911]

go with race, e85 is getting harder and harder to find and it actually burns faster.

 

[deflator]

In my experience, and this was with E~75, you will blow your engine from cylinder pressures before you knock. Myself and others have hit nearly 14:1 at WOT without knock, not on purpose of course. You should be able to get more out of with it, how much I cannot say, but it acts like 110+ octane and cools like all alky fuels.

It will be better than 100 + meth for octane, better for knock suppression, cheaper to fillup, easier to tune...you just have to oversize you fuel system and deal with a few other headaches, like a goo that may form on injectors, varying ethanol levels, and availability.

go with race, e85 is getting harder and harder to find and it actually burns faster.

post count padding?

 

[dexterholland04]

You think $7.99 a gallon is expensive for 100 oct!? Try paying $17/gallon for Q16. E85 is an awesome fuel, provided that you can tune for it safely. You'd be surprised how far it can take you!

 

[BLOHS7844]

This is gonna sound contrary to what everybody else thinks but I know its true. When promoting ethanol fuels, it was often said that it had an octane of a 113 pure and 105 as e85. In reality it has an octane of 94-96. However, under boost, ethanol also has a has a much lower energy per unit of fuel and also has a greater cooling effect per unit of fuel so the effective octane rating under boost is increased significantly.

 

[mcre8iv]

Hmmm....

Anyone know of the parts to do a 1g conversion to E85...I am guessing bigger or two sets of injectors for big power. I can get E85. What to do in winter tho??? Any help here would be appreciated.

 

[cl1ckclack]

i would look into your states regulations about e85 before running it. i did some research for it in new mexico, which is where i will convert to it, and they have a minimum of 105 octane. which means you don't have to worry about getting 70% ethanol like someone above said. but i believe every state is different about this.

 

[deflator]

Every state varies % by season, to help with cold-starts. This chart may be helpful to some: E85 Mustangs.com - Regional Fuel Chart by state

And effective octane is all that really matters anyway. It is 100+ minimum in effective octane so even E70 kicks ass.

 

[1gAWDlaser]

Hmmm....

Anyone know of the parts to do a 1g conversion to E85...I am guessing bigger or two sets of injectors for big power. I can get E85. What to do in winter tho??? Any help here would be appreciated.

You need a way to tune your car and also a way to log depending on what you get. ECMlink you can do both on. E85 really requires nothing to convert other than some bigger injectors depending on how much boost you run and a tune. I was on E85 here and was running 27psi daily and was getting 22 mpg. I drove it like i stole it also. Yeah it burns faster but how can you complain when fillling up with race gas basically for $2.45 a gallon

 

[alex209]

E85 ftw miracle juice

 

[GoCanes777]

I don't like meth anywhere in a set up personally, what where to happen if the pump fails? or what if you hit it and the meth moves to a part of the tank where the pump cant push it where it needs to go? Sounds like another reason for a motor to blow. At least with E-85 you know you wont have to worry about a pump failing or simply a empty tank by mistake and why spend 40-50$ on a drum of meth and then have to get gas too? When you ll spend less then that in a full tank of e-85. Just my thoughts my advice would be to just GO GREEN.

 

[BigKnick]

I'm not running E85 yet but when I get back to NY where it's readily available I will be for sure! Poor mans race gas!

 

[jtmcinder]

This is gonna sound contrary to what everybody else thinks but I know its true. When promoting ethanol fuels, it was often said that it had an octane of a 113 pure and 105 as e85. In reality it has an octane of 94-96. However, under boost, ethanol also has a has a much lower energy per unit of fuel and also has a greater cooling effect per unit of fuel so the effective octane rating under boost is increased significantly.

+1

My state is one of the guilty parties in this, often claiming an octane in the low 100s when it's really 95. The other problem is the "refining" quality varies a lot, such that you have to keep an eye on your injectors, as they will clog when you get a tank of crap.

However, if you have a good local source for E85 and don't mind filling up much more often, it is a cheap way to run more boost and, importantly, more timing.

 

[Jon91TSi]

E85 is an incredible fuel for the price and lots of power can be ran on it but IMO the main problem with it is it loses ethanol in its holding tanks. Getting real "E-85" sounds like it is getting hard. My friend just bought 55gal of e-85 at the closest gas station and I asked him to test it with my new tester out of curiosity and he became pretty disappointing, the gas he just purchased tested 70% ethanol. The gas station is also locally known to carry the best stuff.

Stop by PA. The station local to me, an AMERIgreen station has been spitting out E-90 ever since I started getting fuel there. I test every batch I get and it's always the same. I'm at 34-36 pounds, 21 degrees of advance and 13:1 afr, no knock, but sometimes see 3 degrees during spoolup.

 

[BoosteDsm1993]

I don't like meth anywhere in a set up personally, what where to happen if the pump fails? or what if you hit it and the meth moves to a part of the tank where the pump cant push it where it needs to go? Sounds like another reason for a motor to blow. At least with E-85 you know you wont have to worry about a pump failing or simply a empty tank by mistake and why spend 40-50$ on a drum of meth and then have to get gas too? When you ll spend less then that in a full tank of e-85. Just my thoughts my advice would be to just GO GREEN.

This is why you tune somewhat conservative, so that if the system were to fail, your AFR's wouldn't be in the mid 12s or something ridiculous on pump gas and cause detonation. That's how my last 14b car was tuned, and when the nozzle got clogged, I knew right away something was wrong as my afrs jumped to 11.9-12.0, and I got out of it. That 7 bolt 1gb had 160k miles on it when I sold it, and it still showed no signs of quitting. Daily drove that car since I got my license to when I was almost 18, never had ANY engine problems.

 

[My1GLaser]

I vote for E-85 also. I am seeing 54 lb/min airflow @ 35psi, 22* timing, 9:1 CR, 12-12.5:1 AFR. How much boost & timing are you running now? Do you have a good 3rd gear pull log to post up?

I actually run a 60% mixture of E-85 & 93 octane. I haven't had any clogging issues or black goop & fuel filter looked good last time I checked it. I only have to run 950cc inj, but its time to upgrade now that I turned the boost up...

I actually drive 200 miles round trip in my truck to get 60-70 gallons of the sweet nectar

 

[Sik95TSI]

No logs but I'm at 24 PSI at 18* timing and AFR between 11.3-11.5

 

[Hjelle88]

Would switching to E85 be worth it for a DD car? I had no clue that E85 had that high of octane and it would be even cheaper for me to purchase in my neck of the woods.

 

[jtmcinder]

The main draw-back of running E85 in a DD is having to fill up so often. The other draw-back is that it's best to test each tankful if you don't trust the place, because E85 is so variable from place to place. Otherwise, it's fine and, in Iowa at least, ends up cheaper in cents-per-mile due to the subsidies.

 

[BLOHS7844]

I don't think that people understand how knock/octane actually works. Just because your not detecting knock with a lean mixture doesn't mean your not killing your engine. Knock is your mixture detonating. Pre ignition is when the mixture ignites before the spark plug fires. The only way you can detect pre ignition is when you see a hole in your piston from it melting.

E85 is very prone to pre ignition. It burns cooler so more deposits can potentially form. It can also clog injectors which makes your mixture lean and that makes preignition more likely.

105 is it's research octane rating. Regular 87 octane gas has a RON of about 92. E85's motor octane rating is actually pretty low compared to it's RON. The difference between the 2 numbers is the number u see on the pump. Thats called it's anti knock index, which is about 95, not 105 like everyone seems to think.

I'm not saying don't use E85 but know that just because you aren't getting knock doesn't mean your not hurting your engine.

 

[My1GLaser]

105 is it's research octane rating. Regular 87 octane gas has a RON of about 92. E85's motor octane rating is actually pretty low compared to it's RON. The difference between the 2 numbers is the number u see on the pump. Thats called it's anti knock index, which is about 95, not 105 like everyone seems to think.

I am sure I know less about this than you, but I find it hard to believe that its motor octane is only 2 points higher pump gas. So in effect I would be running 94 octane I don't see how it would be possible to run the boost and timing I am running if that were true.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I don't have any research to back it up. It just doesn't add up in my mind. My rod bearings look great and I just pulled the head and my pistons were nearly spotless after a year of running this mixture. Maybe its cause I'm not 100% E-85...

 

[BLOHS7844]

The fact that more E85 is needed per unit of air means it will have a greater cooling effect. Per unit of fuel it will also absorb more energy than gasoline when it evaporates so that contributes to cooling effect also

 

[Sik95TSI]

E85 is an incredible fuel for the price and lots of power can be ran on it but IMO the main problem with it is it loses ethanol in its holding tanks. Getting real "E-85" sounds like it is getting hard. My friend just bought 55gal of e-85 at the closest gas station and I asked him to test it with my new tester out of curiosity and he became pretty disappointing, the gas he just purchased tested 70% ethanol. The gas station is also locally known to carry the best stuff.

Here's another ? I don't DD my car I drive it maybe once or twice a week, Now since you said the main problem with E-85 is it looses ethanol in it's holding tanks Let's say I get 5-6 gallons one night and I drive it and only use 4 gallons of it will those last 2 go bad within a week of my car sitting there?? Or will I be good and be able to go fill up again drive fine ect.