E85 on EVOIII at High Boost...

[turboglenn]

I hope you are not running around at 18:1 on e85 on a wbo2 set up for gasoline, and that your lean reading was just an accident like mine. If so, you need to back it down to 11.5-12:1 or you are going to melt something.

It does not matter if it's set to gasoline, it took me a few to realize this when explained, but teh instructions that come with the AEM uego helped me figure it out.

The AFR numbers is just a display based off of the actual "Lambda" reading which is the same for all fuels as it's a percentage above and below stoich but accurate all teh way through on all fuels.

11.5:1 on gas when displayed is 0.790 lambda reading, this equalls the same as 7.11:1 on ethanol, but the reading just comes out as a gasoline reading of 11.56:1..... Even at cruising where you need ~ 14.7:1 the gasoline AFR matches up with the same lambda voltage as needed on E85 i.e... 14.7:1 = 1.0 lambda which = 9:1 on E85 (also the "stoich" area for that fuel... I hpe that's not too complicated, but in short terms, you can use gasoline readings and targets to tune your E85, just the actual ratio of what's going in will be different than what's displayed, but still will be your correct target AFR.

 

[JayRolla]

AFR as shown on an AEM UEGO set up for gasoline. My readings were taken at WOT at 20psi. The target afr is 11.5:1, as burned into my eprom chip. I was lean because the chip was burned incorrectly. And as I previously wrote, I did buy a wbo2 setup so that I can keep an eye on things now, instead of tuning for no knock.

I hope you are not running around at 18:1 on e85 on a wbo2 set up for gasoline, and that your lean reading was just an accident like mine. If so, you need to back it down to 11.5-12:1 or you are going to melt something.

I know your lucky you still have your valves intact.

 

[turbo addict]

What plugs are people running with high boost e85 e316 set ups. I was running bpr7eix and was working really well but the temps got colder the other day here and my boost was going to 35psi and dropping to 29psi after 7000rpm to redline (8800) but with the colder temp out the boost dropped to only 32-33psi and I melted the ground strap off of the plug on the #2 cylinder.

I have br8es now but he car runs like crap when driving around town.

thanks

 

[kahl23]

Jebus guys. I have the supporting mods to do all of this. I have 750cc right now so I would have to upgrade to at least 1050cc for anything near 30psi. I'll be happy to hold boost to redline at 25psi but I don't think my 750cc will do it.

Not necessarily, on race gas we saw 374whp/389tq on 26psi using 116 octane and 750's. That setup was also good for 347whp/357tq on around 22psi (IIRC) on 93 octane. YMMV.


EDIT: Forgot this was E85, you probably need more injector.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I know your lucky you still have your valves intact.

Yeah, I only got a few pulls in before I grabbed a wb from Kevin and took a look at what was really going on. Needless to say, I took my foot out of it until I figured out what was wrong. But then my main bearings took a dump, so it hasn't mattered for a while! Hopefully I'll be back together by the end of next week, and back to tuning the e85 setup in a month or so.

It does not matter if it's set to gasoline, it took me a few to realize this when explained, but teh instructions that come with the AEM uego helped me figure it out.

The AFR numbers is just a display based off of the actual "Lambda" reading which is the same for all fuels as it's a percentage above and below stoich but accurate all teh way through on all fuels.

11.5:1 on gas when displayed is 0.790 lambda reading, this equalls the same as 7.11:1 on ethanol, but the reading just comes out as a gasoline reading of 11.56:1..... Even at cruising where you need ~ 14.7:1 the gasoline AFR matches up with the same lambda voltage as needed on E85 i.e... 14.7:1 = 1.0 lambda which = 9:1 on E85 (also the "stoich" area for that fuel... I hpe that's not too complicated, but in short terms, you can use gasoline readings and targets to tune your E85, just the actual ratio of what's going in will be different than what's displayed, but still will be your correct target AFR.

I don't think this info about wb values on e85 can be repeated enough...seems to be a lot of confusion around it. I actually read a number of posts in a previous thread of yours relating to this before I answered snoopy365. I was trying to allude to this in my answer by saying his tune was way off if that was his reading. Thanks for adding to the info here!

 

[matt98eclipse]

I have ran 22psi on my evo3 16g on 100 octane with no knock.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I have ran 22psi on my evo3 16g on 100 octane with no knock.

People have ran 22psi on the 16g on 91 octane, whats your point?
OP is trying to figure out how much boost he can get away with safely on a e85 setup.
22psi is in no way pushing the setup enough to warrent a e85 thread, so the people running their setups hard with e85 are chiming in at what they are getting away with... I.E. 30 + PSI....

 

[turbo addict]

e85+36psi+25*timing=bad :-(

0 knock
1 big hole in the block.
first time that I had a chance to log to see where my timing was.

 

[Black_Bullet]

e85+36psi+25*timing=bad :-(

0 knock
1 big hole in the block.
first time that I had a chance to log to see where my timing was.

Thats too much timing especially with that much boost..But zero knock, with that kind of tune is crazy.

 

[JayRolla]

e85+36psi+25*timing=bad :-(

0 knock
1 big hole in the block.
first time that I had a chance to log to see where my timing was.

May I ask how you where getting that much boost on a 16g?

 

[northendtrooper]

Yeah Please throw up a log or SOMETHING!

 

[turbo addict]

Thats too much timing especially with that much boost..But zero knock, with that kind of tune is crazy.

I didn't know that I was running that much timing. I put the pocketlogger to see where I was at timing wise but on the first pull it let go. I have been running that same set up the entire year.

I have the wastegate shimed and the turbo is ported within an inch of its life, I also have a really high flowing intake and exhaust. (my new intake picked up 5psi over the old setup).

 

[turbotalon1g]

That intake must be sweet.

I am going to try and shim the wastegate with 4 washers, i have 2 now.

 

[bastarddsm]

e85+36psi+25*timing=bad :-(

0 knock
1 big hole in the block.
first time that I had a chance to log to see where my timing was.

HOLY SHITBALLS! I am not running high boost...But my motor is 9.5+:1 compression. I have a China GT. Just switching to E85 I picked up probabally 100hp...from the increased timing and zero knock. I get 23* at 6500 with a 11psi, and a fairly lean a/r (.85v) on the NB.

 

[matt98eclipse]

I will be switching to e85 fuel right after i get this dam car to pass emissions !

 

[Black_Bullet]

I didn't know that I was running that much timing. I put the pocketlogger to see where I was at timing wise but on the first pull it let go. I have been running that same set up the entire year.

I have the wastegate shimed and the turbo is ported within an inch of its life, I also have a really high flowing intake and exhaust. (my new intake picked up 5psi over the old setup).

Im sure porting helps a lot, but I dont understand how your high flowing intake/exhaust allows it to hit that much boost. Normally anything thats higher flowing causes a drop off in boost which directly shows the turbo is having a harder time supplying the engine with the same amount of pressure due to an increase in VE.

I honestly think anything over 30psi tops is way too much to ask of a 16g, you guys might as well just run with no waste gate at all until something gives.

 

[H82lose91]

Typically with a higher flowing intake you will see a drop in boost pressure with a small turbo since it cant keep up. Which is exactly what i saw when i swapped intake manifolds.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I will be switching to e85 fuel right after i get this dam car to pass emissions !

Are you failing the visual check or particle count? If it's the latter, then a few gallons of e85 mixed in with a tank of gas may help you pass. A couple of locals have passed by doing that and wiring the wastegate open so they didn't make any boost under load.

 

[gy2005]

I will be switching to e85 fuel right after i get this dam car to pass emissions !

A little off the original topic, but if passing emissions is your problem, e85 is your friend. That and some more timing advance (assuming you're failing because of unburned hydrocarbons) should get you passed easily. The stock lines and injectors you have will be fine if you're not running high boost and just using it for emissions.

 

[turbo addict]

Typically with a higher flowing intake you will see a drop in boost pressure with a small turbo since it cant keep up. Which is exactly what i saw when i swapped intake manifolds.

I meant the intake from the turbo to the filter, not the intake manifold. my filter that I had previously was really old and beat up and small, I put a new 12" filter on and made a new, much larger intake from the mas to the turbo.

temp made a huge difference too. during the day (80's & 90's) the boost would fall off to 30psi but at night when it was in the 60's boost would hold or only drop 1 or 2 psi.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

I'm suppose to get my car back from Jack's tomorrow, and I'm going to run 25 Psi on E85 with My E316g. I cannot wait! I'll post some logs when I get the car back..

 

[turbo addict]

Im sure porting helps a lot, but I dont understand how your high flowing intake/exhaust allows it to hit that much boost. Normally anything thats higher flowing causes a drop off in boost which directly shows the turbo is having a harder time supplying the engine with the same amount of pressure due to an increase in VE.

I honestly think anything over 30psi tops is way too much to ask of a 16g, you guys might as well just run with no waste gate at all until something gives.

Increasing the flow to the turbo and out of the turbo (decreasing the backpressure after the turbo) means that the turbo does not have to work as hard to flow the same or more air.

I have a old Hahn racecraft o2 eliminator that is 3" right off the turbo and also has an external dump for the internal gate. The exhaust exits out the side of the car as well. I am switching to a 4" after the downpipe when I get the car back together to further decrease backpressure, with such a small turbo the backpressure before the turbo is very high so any decrease in backpressure makes a good difference.

 

[turbo addict]

As a side note I can't believe that the turbo is still in as good a shape as it is. It still has almost no shaft play!! it spins as free as my friends dbb60-1 and over all is in amazing shape especially considering what I have put it through!!! remember that this is (was) my daily driver.

 

[JrCRXHF]

going for E85 now with my new AEM EMS setup this is the wife's car so it is just a stock 6 bolt AWD with 210,000 miles on it so we are going to run 25psi and let her have some fun with the car.

I have a walbro 255lph and 1000cc injector.

AEM wide band and Smart gauge for Air/Fuel

EVO 3 front mount 3" turbo back and so on.

 

[matt98eclipse]

So you guys are saying e85 fuel will help me pass emissions? Here in az they dont have awd rollers so all they do is a IDLE test and a steady 2500 rpms test. Hydrocarbons is the one im failing witch is the unburned fuel.

Look at my mods im not running stock injectors i have PTE 680's with a keydiver stage 3 chip.