Timing settings with high boost on pump?

[93AWDTalon1]

What kind of timing advance and base timing run you guys running that run 22-25psi on pump?

 

[Turbo Monk3y]

Well my base timing is set at 5 degrees and my logs on Dsmlink at the top of 6500rpm are around 11-13 degrees which i will bump them up 4 degrees to make it around 17 or so... the HP est on dsmlink with 18 percent drivetrain loss netted me 372hp at 20 psi 93 octane....

 

[desolateboosted]

I'm doing some testing right now on my car 880s scm61 and stock ecu. I'm running negative 5 degrees advance timing. Yes that's right -5 degrees. I'm doing that because I don't have an eprom ecu yet so I don't want to get sky high timing with the stock ecu. Running 21psi I get 0-5 counts of knock through the rpm band. I'm still testing and I'm going to start advancing the base timing back up to see where the knock/timing/boost threshold is.

 

[myblack98gst]

I'm doing some testing right now on my car 880s scm61 and stock ecu. I'm running negative 5 degrees advance timing. Yes that's right -5 degrees. I'm doing that because I don't have an eprom ecu yet so I don't want to get sky high timing with the stock ecu. Running 21psi I get 0-5 counts of knock through the rpm band. I'm still testing and I'm going to start advancing the base timing back up to see where the knock/timing/boost threshold is.

I bet the car is a BLAST to drive with all that timing!!

 

[desolateboosted]

Honestly the car feels almost the same with -5 compared to 5 degrees. Maybe a little tiny lowend power difference but really nothing to complain about. The ecu will still add timing to the -5 and compensate just fine imo.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

What kind of timing advance and base timing run you guys running that run 22-25psi on pump?

25psi, straight 93 octane, 660's, 45psi base fuel, i was seeing 16-18 deg. advance on the logger from 6k rpms up. No knock. 5 deg. base timing.

 

[TargeT]

I'm doing some testing right now on my car 880s scm61 and stock ecu. I'm running negative 5 degrees advance timing. Yes that's right -5 degrees. I'm doing that because I don't have an eprom ecu yet so I don't want to get sky high timing with the stock ecu. Running 21psi I get 0-5 counts of knock through the rpm band. I'm still testing and I'm going to start advancing the base timing back up to see where the knock/timing/boost threshold is.

just to get this strait in my mind

your running -5 degrees timing..

so your igniting 5degrees BTDC ?

or is it more like 12 atdc? (take the 18 or what ever normal timing and subtract 5degrees)

 

[desolateboosted]

I'm not running 5 degrees base timing. I'm running -5 degrees base timing. I'm taking the timing tick mark on the crank pully and taking it past the 0 mark into -5 degrees retard. The cas is rotated quite a bit on the retard range. I guess you can say that is 5 degrees base negative timing (instead of saying 5 degrees base advance timing).

 

[desolateboosted]

Also with that base timing I'm running, I'm zerod out across on my MAFT for the 880s setting with the WOT knob at +5% enrichment.

 

[Burnett03]

Also with that base timing I'm running, I'm zerod out across on my MAFT for the 880s setting with the WOT knob at +5% enrichment.

how's the car idle with -5base timing? Mine wont quit knocking unless i richen it up, then it sputters. WHen i lean it it hauls butt, but knocks, so i think i want to retard the base timing. But im already at 3, so im not sure how much lower i can go.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

how's the car idle with -5base timing? Mine wont quit knocking unless i richen it up, then it sputters. WHen i lean it it hauls butt, but knocks, so i think i want to retard the base timing. But im already at 3, so im not sure how much lower i can go.

It's going to run like complete SHIT. Here's why. 1G 6 bolt timing cover has timing marks that read: 10 | T

When setting the timing mark on the crank pulley, wherever that mark is when the timing light flashes, is when the spark event occurs. Base timing should be right on that middle mark, for 5 deg. BTDC. Numbnuts there setting is base timing to -5, means his timing mark is somewhere to the RIGHT of the T, which there are NO marks. This also means he is firing the spark plug AFTER the piston reaches TDC. The pistons is already on the way DOWN before his spark occurs. Meaning, his car will feel worse than a 92hp Civic.

 

[Irrational]

It's going to run like complete SHIT. Here's why. 1G 6 bolt timing cover has timing marks that read: 10 | T

When setting the timing mark on the crank pulley, wherever that mark is when the timing light flashes, is when the spark event occurs. Base timing should be right on that middle mark, for 5 deg. BTDC. Numbnuts there setting is base timing to -5, means his timing mark is somewhere to the RIGHT of the T, which there are NO marks. This also means he is firing the spark plug AFTER the piston reaches TDC. The pistons is already on the way DOWN before his spark occurs. Meaning, his car will feel worse than a 92hp Civic.

What he is saying is not right. Your ecu adds timing so by making it -5 then adding the +17 the ecu throws at WOT you come out with 12. witch is what this Guy is aiming for with a big turbo at high boost with pump gas.so the spark is going off before the piston is at TDC. As he stated he is playing it safe and plans on adding timing once he get's more tuning equipment.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

OK. I read it wrong. I still don't understand why on earth you would have to retard the timing THAT much. If you get that much knock at WOT, then you need to turn the boost DOWN, not retard your base timing 10 deg. from stock. I get a TOTAL of 21-23 deg. advance at 25psi on a stock ecu, no DSMLINK, or anything. Still think you are just killing power retarding it that much. Run better gas, or less boost.

 

[djpast]

i run 0* btdc on my near stock 1g, just because it has a 2g maf and the stock injectors and s-afc. i can run 16-17 psi with no knock and get good power with this setup. if i run anything over 0*, i will get knock no matter how much i richen the hi throttle settings... its a temp fix til i get the parts i need to be fast and safe now.

as soon as i get a afpr, fuel pump and bigger injectors, its heading back up to 5* tho. right now its still faster then stock by quite a bit.

 

[ucancallmedebo]

I am having a simular problem with my timing and 2 g mass. I have a keydiver chip which corrects for my 750's and mass. I cant run any higher than -6-7 TDC at idle without getting knock. I have all supporting mods and my trims are at around 100 high and low at 38 psi fuel pressure with the hose off and afc around zero. I have tried running 34psi and adding on the afc to reduce timing and it dosent seem to have any effect like backing the base timing back.. I get knock sometimes and sometimes I dont. Usually less pronounced If I just hammer the throttle. I am getting about 18-19 at top of 2nd andn 3rd which is about right for 19psi. The problem I think is the timing is comming on to fast/strong and causing this knock. The car does not drive very well with the timing this low in the 1-3k range but pulls strong in the upper. It will sometimes want to stall when cruising to a stop. The idle is much better and so is drivability with higher base timing but the diffrence between running 0 and -7 is like 1-3 counts knock or less and 20+ counts. The ecu seem to correct for whatever the base timing is set at. At idle the logger will show 10-12deg at +5 or -5. It just takes the ecu a moment to adjust with the new setting.I just got my chip last week and the timing maps should be the newer ones for 2g mass correction. I noticed logging if I am at 40-50 percent throttle with no knock and go 100 my timing usually drops to 15. I thought timing usually drops to 10 or so and climbs from there. The car is way faster with retarded timing and no knock than advanced and knock pulling my timing to <10. I am gonna email jeff and see if he can make me a chip with less agressive timing. What do you guys think? I bought the car mostly like it is and it idles pretty smooth usually so I dont think the timing is off a tooth or anything. Could having a cam angle sensor installed backwards cause this prob. Any simular exsperiences like this?

 

[desolateboosted]

First off imo I'll tell you how it feels like at -5 degrees base timing. Yes the car still hauls and yes it still runs almost like it would at 5 degrees, given some power loss in the off boost situations. Not enough powerloss to the point of me having to add some base timing back to get it to drive right. The base timing is at -5 yes that means there are no tick marks on that side. It's an assumption I'm running -5 degrees because the tick mark is the same distance away from 0 the other way. Anyhow I found out the injectors I have is actually 750s, (don't ask me how that happened). Anyway the point is the ECU will add timing and you will end up with a good amount of timing at WOT and driving conditions. With a lot of compensation with bigger injectors. Pretty much by retarding the base timing you are compensating for that adjusted timing all the time. It cancels both the added timing from the ECU from seeing less airflow AND the reduced base timing thus the car feels normal with upgraded injectors. I am seeing 25-27 degrees at WOT on the logger that means with -5 degrees base timing I am actually running 15-17 degrees at WOT. This is on pump gas.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

Well, if it works for you, go ahead. Sounds like a very retarded way to go about it. I assume you don't have a keydiver chip or DSMLink accomodating for these injectors? Then I could see how timing control would be a big issue.

 

[TheDeer]

FPRed, 93 octane, at 24psi I run 17 degree's.

 

[sbiggi]

50 trim, 950cc injectors (chipped for them), 22 psi, 22 deg timing... 91 octane
I run 10.8:1 a/f on 91 octane, only get like 5 counts of knock sometimes.... usually in 4th gear.

 

[WombatTSi]

As NOSLO2PT0 was eluding too, for a pump gas tune, less boost and more timing is usually better. It will greatly inprove drivability; off boost, and low boost situations especially. For race gas, when all you care about is WOT, then yes, run more boost and less timing.

 

[danl]

As NOSLO2PT0 was eluding too, for a pump gas tune, less boost and more timing is usually better. It will greatly inprove drivability; off boost, and low boost situations especially. For race gas, when all you care about is WOT, then yes, run more boost and less timing.

I'd have to disagree here.

On pump gas run low timing and moderate boost. I like to keep boost in the meat of the efficiency island and taper the timing to keep knock at bay.

On race gas run a fair bit of timing, 20-28 degrees depending with a LOT of boost. I run slightly above the efficiency island on race gas. Too much timing on race gas will net negative work and you'll loose trap speed.

People who hack the airflow signal to the ecu have two problems typically. They don't have enough low load timing. They also have too much high load timing. The result is intermittant knocking and/or knock in the higher gears.

 

[Turbo Monk3y]

Well i must be doing something wrong here someone please correct/help me on this... Ok Ive noticed most of you guys in here are 1gen guys. The one that caught my attention was the guy with the FPRED running 24psi pump 93 with 17 degrees timing... well I have a 2g with the 2g ECU with DSMLINK.. BUT.. i have a 1g 6bolt motor... Without really anytuning and 0 knock/ low boost the highest timing i got was 16-17... with my timing set to 5 BTDC. Now currently im running 21-22 psi on a T04E 60trim with 93 pump but i have had to take out 2 degrees of timing from up top, so instead of getting 16 up top i now get 14... How are you getting to 17 degrees timing @ 24psi on a turbo that flows a little more than mine??? im baffled... Did you just richen the crap outta your upper rpm band??? Right now i have -10 on fuel settings for dsmlink from 5K to 8K.. Should i put those back to 0 to richen them up and then try 24psi?? because at 22Psi in 4th gear i get 2-3 counts of knock im trying to go for anything below 2 counts.... If anyone understands this please chime in and help me understand this ....heres my current dsmlink settings

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[liquordrunk]

i would try to richen it up a little bit in the upper rpm range since you say you are knocking what does you 02 voltage look like? during that range..

 

[TheDeer]

Well i must be doing something wrong here someone please correct/help me on this... Ok Ive noticed most of you guys in here are 1gen guys. The one that caught my attention was the guy with the FPRED running 24psi pump 93 with 17 degrees timing... well I have a 2g with the 2g ECU with DSMLINK.. BUT.. i have a 1g 6bolt motor... Without really anytuning and 0 knock/ low boost the highest timing i got was 16-17... with my timing set to 5 BTDC. Now currently im running 21-22 psi on a T04E 60trim with 93 pump but i have had to take out 2 degrees of timing from up top, so instead of getting 16 up top i now get 14... How are you getting to 17 degrees timing @ 24psi on a turbo that flows a little more than mine??? im baffled... Did you just richen the crap outta your upper rpm band??? Right now i have -10 on fuel settings for dsmlink from 5K to 8K.. Should i put those back to 0 to richen them up and then try 24psi?? because at 22Psi in 4th gear i get 2-3 counts of knock im trying to go for anything below 2 counts.... If anyone understands this please chime in and help me understand this ....heres my current dsmlink settings

I am a 1G as well, the car just dyno'd again this time at 27PSI, 17 degrees, on 93 (made around 450 wheel). It is pretty rich up top, there are 950's in there as well. Also I am running Haltech with DIS-2 (you can see the rest of the mods in my profile). The A/F is in the low 10's up top.