Timing Help running high boost on pump with W/I

[GORBS88]

Hey guys, have a quick question for a few of you guys running high boost on pump with W/I. I having some issues with knock and timing, i may be tryin to run to much advance but im not to sure. What kinda of advance thru the rpm are you guys runnin with 26-30psi boost??

Pls speak from experience, i know lots are runnin as much as 30psi on pump..pls chime in.

My profile is up to date and i run 94 octane.

 

[daren_p]

Looks like your running an M3 & M5 nozzle? What kind of timing advance are you trying to run? What water/meth mixture are you running? The 1g timing is agressive to start with & I would say those nozzles are on the smaller side to be running that kind of boost. If your running a stock 1g curve with 26+ psi, I'd say your doing pretty well with that nozzle. I know a couple of guys running 26+ psi but are using larger nozzles, M10+.

 

[TimG]

Keeping this thread Canadian...

It's a huge difference at WOT and this link can verify that: http://www.dsmlinkwiki.com/default.aspx/DSMLink/2G Timing In 1G ECU.html .

The best way to see the proper values is to download the DSMLink software (it's free) and open up two logs, one 1G and one 2G. Open the timing curves for each log and click off the "Show XG Estimates." Zero out the timing sliders and read the bottom values.

My timing curve is retarded all over the place to combat the knock and I'm using an M7 nozzle. I'm upgrading to an M12 nozzle after I get back from the shootout and hopefully going to be able to add some timing back into the equation.

 

[GORBS88]

Looks like your running an M3 & M5 nozzle? What kind of timing advance are you trying to run? What water/meth mixture are you running? The 1g timing is agressive to start with & I would say those nozzles are on the smaller side to be running that kind of boost. If your running a stock 1g curve with 26+ psi, I'd say your doing pretty well with that nozzle. I know a couple of guys running 26+ psi but are using larger nozzles, M10+.

Hey, thanx for the replys. I have been waiting patiently, As for the W/I you are correct i am running M3 and M5 nozzles with a 50-50 mix of water and meth(blue washer fluid). I am tuning with tunerpro so i have been pullin lots of timing off the stock maps.

The max advance i am shootin for varies alittle depending on what gear i am in, but 3rd gear with more airflow i am tryin for 15-16 degrees, second gear is 16-17 degrees at WOT at 7000rpm. This is lower then it was when i made the original post and it has helped abit. Does this sound like to much timing?? The car has lost some power by pullin more timing, but if this is average for this kind of boost then i will leave it.

I think i will step up the nozzles like you said to a single M10 or so, and then later on if i need more i can add the extra M3 back in.

 

[daren_p]

Sounds like your on the right track. 15-16 advance by redline in third if your running 26+ psi isn't bad at all. Sure some guys have seen more but I also know of alot who see less. Currently I only see 16 deg by redline & thats at 22 psi but I'm using just a M5 nozzle. Probably a M10 will be in my future.

Have you tried mixing your own meth/water? I first ran the green -45 fluid as thats all I could find (guess because of the season, most was summer with teflon & crap) So the next time I filled up, I mixed my own, it seemed to work better for me at reducing knock. I'd give this a try & see if your results vary, I too am using 50/50 mix.


If you want more out of it, I think swapping in larger nozzles is a good step to take. One local is running an M10 & was able to get 30psi out of his evoIII (of course dropping off, probably around 26 psi & that was stock cams so you don't get the same amount of cylinder pressure as aftermarket cams give you, ie less chance of knock). Another local is running somewhere around 30 psi mark as well on a 3575 but he is also running two M14 nozzles (yes I said two ) with 100% meth.

 

[yokotabrat]

Unfortunately every car will react to timing differently. As an example, I was only able to run about 8-10 degrees at WOT with a 0.8mm aquamist nozzle running blue washer fluid on a 16g at 23psi. It worked well for me since I also burned quite a bit of oil which made running higher timing numbers difficult for me. If the car feels faster at lower boost and higher timing I'd say go for that. There's a sweet spot for timing and if you're injecting enough meth to bump the octane rating up enough you could actually lower hp by going too high. Doubtful, but possible.

I also agree with daren that maybe mixing your own meth/water would be good. If you're diluting the washer fluid your getting even less meth since that stuff is already diluted. I never mixed my own, however I did try a bunch of different brands and found some that worked quite a bit better than others.

 

[GORBS88]

thanx for all the help guys . Now atleast i know i'm in the ballpark with the timing, my next step is goin to be gettin an M10 nozzle. That should be fine for what i'm doin.

I have never tryed to mix my own, where can i get the meth from? can i use tap water or is distilled better?

 

[91-gsx]

thanx for all the help guys . Now atleast i know i'm in the ballpark with the timing, my next step is goin to be gettin an M10 nozzle. That should be fine for what i'm doin.

I have never tryed to mix my own, where can i get the meth from? can i use tap water or is distilled better?

I would try using just the washer fluid before you step up because you are actually running closer to only 25% meth in your mix. The -45 mix should come mixed 50/50, try that without the extra water. That will probably help a good amount on the timing issue.

 

[spyderturbo007]

You can pick up MeOH at you local auto parts store and even walmart, under the brand name Heet. Just make sure you pick up the yellow bottle, NOT the red bottle. The yellow bottle is meth and the red is isopropanol.

You also want to use distilled water because of the dissolved mineral content in tap water. You should be able to get distilled at the grocery store for about $1 / gallon.

 

[daren_p]

I just re-read your post, it sounds like you have been adding water to the washer fluid at 50/50? Origionally I was thinking you were refering to just running the straight -40 fluid which is approx a 50/50 mix. If you are mixing in water to the washer fluid at 50/50, like was said, your now only running about 25% meth (that is if your running the -40 fluid, if not it could be less meth). Knowing this, I'd say your doing very well.

Mixing your own is probably about the same cost or possibly abit cheeper. I get the meth from Canadian tire but I have been told home depot carries it as well (may be cheeper). Think its 9.99 for a 4L jug at Crappy Tire & its called Methyl Hydrate (think thats the correct spelling). Its in the paint section, white jug with pink & blue label. For water I was told to use de-ionized, not distilled (not sure if it makes much difference as I first ran distilled as well). You can get this as well at Crappy tire, like 1.99 for a 4L jug, its in the automotive section.

 

[GORBS88]

I just re-read your post, it sounds like you have been adding water to the washer fluid at 50/50? Origionally I was thinking you were refering to just running the straight -40 fluid which is approx a 50/50 mix. If you are mixing in water to the washer fluid at 50/50, like was said, your now only running about 25% meth (that is if your running the -40 fluid, if not it could be less meth). Knowing this, I'd say your doing very well.

Mixing your own is probably about the same cost or possibly abit cheeper. I get the meth from Canadian tire but I have been told home depot carries it as well (may be cheeper). Think its 9.99 for a 4L jug at Crappy Tire & its called Methyl Hydrate (think thats the correct spelling). Its in the paint section, white jug with pink & blue label. For water I was told to use de-ionized, not distilled (not sure if it makes much difference as I first ran distilled as well). You can get this as well at Crappy tire, like 1.99 for a 4L jug, its in the automotive section.

Hey, i have NOT been adding water to the washer fluid, straight outta the jug. I had been using the blue stuff which is good for -35 but i have now found some good for -45. Is there much point runnin the colder stuff as it would have more meth??????? is the -45 50-50 or is the -35 closer to 50-50?????let me know...

 

[daren_p]

I think it varies abit between manufactures but they normally say a 50/50 mix is the -40 fluid. Higher temp rating should have less meth & obviously the colder rated stuff should have more meth.

I forget the name, but Walmart carries a brand of washer fluid that most seem to recommend but last time I checked locally they only had the companies summer washer fluid. I would still recommend mixing your own, that way you know for sure how much meth/water your running & you don't have to worry about the dye's, detergents, etc. that they put in washer fluid.